Stock LS2 + boost + spray?
07-07-2009, 06:50 PM
#1
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Stock LS2 + boost + spray? 07 LS2, running an APS kit at 10psi, making 650rhwp and around 680rwtq. 91oct gas, timing is VERY conservative. We couldn't turn it up any more thanks to our awesome 91oct gas. Going to switch to E85 for some more headroom. Already have fuel system in place for it. Thinking about running a 50 shot dry for a little insurance against a GT42R equipped Honda. 
Obviously this wont last forever - but for an occasional weekend race in Mexico, am I pushing it too much?
Any thoughts?
Obviously this wont last forever - but for an occasional weekend race in Mexico, am I pushing it too much?
Any thoughts?
Last edited by dubseven; 07-07-2009 at 06:58 PM.
07-07-2009, 09:30 PM
#6
07 LS2, running an APS kit at 10psi, making 650rhwp and around 680rwtq. 91oct gas, timing is VERY conservative. We couldn't turn it up any more thanks to our awesome 91oct gas. Going to switch to E85 for some more headroom. Already have fuel system in place for it. Thinking about running a 50 shot dry for a little insurance against a GT42R equipped Honda.
Obviously this wont last forever - but for an occasional weekend race in Mexico, am I pushing it too much?
Any thoughts?
Obviously this wont last forever - but for an occasional weekend race in Mexico, am I pushing it too much?
Any thoughts?
07-07-2009, 09:48 PM
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You obviously posted corrected numbers, as your actual rwhp would be much lower in Denver. This gives you some overhead before fubaring the rods and pistons. Just don't spray at sea level unless you want to pick your motor up in a trash bag. Just remember in the future that corrected numbers are useless in determining breakage of hard parts. This sort of question requires ACTUAL numbers to properly determine.
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07-07-2009, 09:56 PM
#8
10 psi at over 5k ft in Denver will only make about 2/3 the power it would make at sea level. The percentage increase would be the same, but the total actual power is much less. Cars that run low 12's at Atco run high 14's in Denver. Altitude sucks for speed.
07-09-2009, 10:17 AM
#9
The beauty of Forced Induction and why they are awesome, is they ELIMINATE altitude loss that a NA would see.
POSITIVE air is positive air.
5psi of air in the mountains is the SAME as 5psi at sea level... lets look at the 5 psi of air; it has the SAME amount of Oxygen molecules no matter what. 5psi is achieved because that is how the system (wastegate... or limitiing device) is set up. It ALWAYS Goes til that psi level is reached... thus... the same amount of Oxygen molecules, where the power comes from. (they are more spread apart higher up... but that just means.. Gather more (more impeller rotations).. to reach that 5psi, or wherever the wastegate is set at)
Dyno runs on forced induced cars should NOT be SAE corrected ( J1349) for this reason.
What happens though is the CURVE will change because MORE spins of the impeller is required to reach that 5psi (Or whatever the wastegate is set at)
so at higher altitude, its a longer curve to reach... peak HP thus
PEAK HP and TQ STAY THE SAME! Only RESPONSE or CURVE will change...
try it out... i have...
call dynojet, they will tell you the same thing.
Here is there number
Dan Hourigan
VP Dynamometer Sales
Dynojet Research Inc.
http://www.dynojet.com
dwh@dynojet.com
p: (800)992-3525
p: (702)639-1113
f: (702)399-1431
Last edited by vmapper; 07-09-2009 at 10:27 AM.
07-09-2009, 10:18 AM
#10
08-18-2009, 07:38 PM
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Mine runs slow as ***** here in Denver, but runs like a raped ape at sea level. Maybe Vmapper can explain this to me? Also, why is it harder to breathe at higher altitudes then if the air is the same?
This is how I understood it:
This is how I understood it:
It's not that it is harder to breathe exactly, but breathing at high elevation does not provide as much benefit as it does at sea level. This is because the atmosphere is more dense at low altitudes, and at high altitudes the atmosphere is not as dense. In other words, if you have a container of air at sea level, that container would hold more molecules than the same container would have at higher elevation.
When you breathe, what your body is taking out of the air is oxygen (which makes up about 20% of the Earth's atmosphere). As you go to higher elevation, the same breath that you take doesn't have as much oxygen in it because the air is less dense. Therefore, doing physical activities at high altitude, where your body demands a lot of oxygen to function can be very difficult because you need more breaths to get the same amount of oxygen as you would at sea level.
When you breathe, what your body is taking out of the air is oxygen (which makes up about 20% of the Earth's atmosphere). As you go to higher elevation, the same breath that you take doesn't have as much oxygen in it because the air is less dense. Therefore, doing physical activities at high altitude, where your body demands a lot of oxygen to function can be very difficult because you need more breaths to get the same amount of oxygen as you would at sea level.
08-18-2009, 08:10 PM
#15
That is COMPLETELY INCORRECT. - Your reasoning doesn't even make any sense either. 10psi of air anywhere is 10psi! lol... in space 10psi is 10psi. its just a measure of units.
The beauty of Forced Induction and why they are awesome, is they ELIMINATE altitude loss that a NA would see.
POSITIVE air is positive air.
5psi of air in the mountains is the SAME as 5psi at sea level... lets look at the 5 psi of air; it has the SAME amount of Oxygen molecules no matter what. 5psi is achieved because that is how the system (wastegate... or limitiing device) is set up. It ALWAYS Goes til that psi level is reached... thus... the same amount of Oxygen molecules, where the power comes from. (they are more spread apart higher up... but that just means.. Gather more (more impeller rotations).. to reach that 5psi, or wherever the wastegate is set at)
Dyno runs on forced induced cars should NOT be SAE corrected ( J1349) for this reason.
What happens though is the CURVE will change because MORE spins of the impeller is required to reach that 5psi (Or whatever the wastegate is set at)
so at higher altitude, its a longer curve to reach... peak HP thus
PEAK HP and TQ STAY THE SAME! Only RESPONSE or CURVE will change...
try it out... i have...
call dynojet, they will tell you the same thing.
Here is there number
Dan Hourigan
VP Dynamometer Sales
Dynojet Research Inc.
http://www.dynojet.com
dwh@dynojet.com
p: (800)992-3525
p: (702)639-1113
f: (702)399-1431
The beauty of Forced Induction and why they are awesome, is they ELIMINATE altitude loss that a NA would see.
POSITIVE air is positive air.
5psi of air in the mountains is the SAME as 5psi at sea level... lets look at the 5 psi of air; it has the SAME amount of Oxygen molecules no matter what. 5psi is achieved because that is how the system (wastegate... or limitiing device) is set up. It ALWAYS Goes til that psi level is reached... thus... the same amount of Oxygen molecules, where the power comes from. (they are more spread apart higher up... but that just means.. Gather more (more impeller rotations).. to reach that 5psi, or wherever the wastegate is set at)
Dyno runs on forced induced cars should NOT be SAE corrected ( J1349) for this reason.
What happens though is the CURVE will change because MORE spins of the impeller is required to reach that 5psi (Or whatever the wastegate is set at)
so at higher altitude, its a longer curve to reach... peak HP thus
PEAK HP and TQ STAY THE SAME! Only RESPONSE or CURVE will change...
try it out... i have...
call dynojet, they will tell you the same thing.
Here is there number
Dan Hourigan
VP Dynamometer Sales
Dynojet Research Inc.
http://www.dynojet.com
dwh@dynojet.com
p: (800)992-3525
p: (702)639-1113
f: (702)399-1431
The density of air at sea level is much greater than it is at elevation. That being said forced induction will help in high elevation but doesn't take away the thin air. A blower/turbo can only compress the air it breathes. I live in park city UT the roads I drive on are in the 5,500-7,000 ft , it can be a humbling experience. Mods are in sig, tuned at 5,600 ft and made 520rwhp, when every one else makes 100hp more with the same mods at sea level.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ai...ure-d_462.html
http://www.slowgt.com/Calc2.htm#BasAltCal
08-18-2009, 08:12 PM
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do it do it do it!!!
I just sold my P1 and bought an F1C... I needed more as well!!! we're making a ton of changes and hope to be finished soon.
Just make sure the tune is spot on... that's by far the most important part of the setup... the LS2 can take a lot, as long as there is zero detonation...
I just sold my P1 and bought an F1C... I needed more as well!!! we're making a ton of changes and hope to be finished soon.
Just make sure the tune is spot on... that's by far the most important part of the setup... the LS2 can take a lot, as long as there is zero detonation...
08-19-2009, 01:28 AM
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do it seems to be the consensus. by the way you guys are all sort of right. ten psi is ten psi regardless of position as related to sea level. however... air density is the key factor. the more oxygen, the more power you make. you lose your overall air density, and subsequently oxygen content, when you go higher above sea level; this is the same reason helicopters "top out"
08-20-2009, 12:53 AM
#19
That is COMPLETELY INCORRECT. - Your reasoning doesn't even make any sense either. 10psi of air anywhere is 10psi! lol... in space 10psi is 10psi. its just a measure of units.
The beauty of Forced Induction and why they are awesome, is they ELIMINATE altitude loss that a NA would see.
POSITIVE air is positive air.
5psi of air in the mountains is the SAME as 5psi at sea level... lets look at the 5 psi of air; it has the SAME amount of Oxygen molecules no matter what. 5psi is achieved because that is how the system (wastegate... or limitiing device) is set up. It ALWAYS Goes til that psi level is reached... thus... the same amount of Oxygen molecules, where the power comes from. (they are more spread apart higher up... but that just means.. Gather more (more impeller rotations).. to reach that 5psi, or wherever the wastegate is set at)
Dyno runs on forced induced cars should NOT be SAE corrected ( J1349) for this reason.
What happens though is the CURVE will change because MORE spins of the impeller is required to reach that 5psi (Or whatever the wastegate is set at)
so at higher altitude, its a longer curve to reach... peak HP thus
PEAK HP and TQ STAY THE SAME! Only RESPONSE or CURVE will change...
try it out... i have...
call dynojet, they will tell you the same thing.
Here is there number
Dan Hourigan
VP Dynamometer Sales
Dynojet Research Inc.
http://www.dynojet.com
dwh@dynojet.com
p: (800)992-3525
p: (702)639-1113
f: (702)399-1431
The beauty of Forced Induction and why they are awesome, is they ELIMINATE altitude loss that a NA would see.
POSITIVE air is positive air.
5psi of air in the mountains is the SAME as 5psi at sea level... lets look at the 5 psi of air; it has the SAME amount of Oxygen molecules no matter what. 5psi is achieved because that is how the system (wastegate... or limitiing device) is set up. It ALWAYS Goes til that psi level is reached... thus... the same amount of Oxygen molecules, where the power comes from. (they are more spread apart higher up... but that just means.. Gather more (more impeller rotations).. to reach that 5psi, or wherever the wastegate is set at)
Dyno runs on forced induced cars should NOT be SAE corrected ( J1349) for this reason.
What happens though is the CURVE will change because MORE spins of the impeller is required to reach that 5psi (Or whatever the wastegate is set at)
so at higher altitude, its a longer curve to reach... peak HP thus
PEAK HP and TQ STAY THE SAME! Only RESPONSE or CURVE will change...
try it out... i have...
call dynojet, they will tell you the same thing.
Here is there number
Dan Hourigan
VP Dynamometer Sales
Dynojet Research Inc.
http://www.dynojet.com
dwh@dynojet.com
p: (800)992-3525
p: (702)639-1113
f: (702)399-1431