Finally! I have cut my lag time down!!!!
06-19-2010, 09:20 PM
#1
Finally! I have cut my lag time down!!!! I have had some great succsess tonight. I did the following:
I placed the car in neutral to symulate a M6 car and set the 2step first to 3500rpm, I tried the timing at were i have it now and I dropped it to 10 degrees and tried it again, nothing possitive with either.
I then turned the 2step up to 4500rpm and tried it with the timing at normal, still no success.
I then dropped the timing to 10 degrees and stood on it. It cam up to 4500rpm and sounded like a war zone, the neighbors dog ran off, the neighbors ducked be hind the trees, and the manifold came up to 125kpa in less then 2 seconds!
BAMM! I have boost on the line!!!!!!
So now that I know and have proven to myself that I can get this GT-88 to spool up on the line, I now need to decide how loose I need Circle D to set my stall to.
Should I just have it loosend up to 4500? I do not know if I will like driving a stall that loose, and I do plan on utilizing the lockup at the top of third or maybe even 4th, the way I have the trans set up when it comes on it does not come on soft, it just clamps down right now. 4500 rpm might be too much for that.
I have driven the car with a 3500 stall and a 4400 stall when I had the 4L60 in it. I did like the way the 3500 drove but when I had it opened up to 4400, I only had it in there for two weeks and I pulled the trans and started the 4L80 build, partialy because I did not like the stall opened up to 4400.
I am wondering if the 3500 with the 2step and the Tbrake will be enough to make it spool up fast like it did at 4500, 10 degrees of timing and no load.
Thanks
I placed the car in neutral to symulate a M6 car and set the 2step first to 3500rpm, I tried the timing at were i have it now and I dropped it to 10 degrees and tried it again, nothing possitive with either.
I then turned the 2step up to 4500rpm and tried it with the timing at normal, still no success.
I then dropped the timing to 10 degrees and stood on it. It cam up to 4500rpm and sounded like a war zone, the neighbors dog ran off, the neighbors ducked be hind the trees, and the manifold came up to 125kpa in less then 2 seconds!
BAMM! I have boost on the line!!!!!!
So now that I know and have proven to myself that I can get this GT-88 to spool up on the line, I now need to decide how loose I need Circle D to set my stall to.
Should I just have it loosend up to 4500? I do not know if I will like driving a stall that loose, and I do plan on utilizing the lockup at the top of third or maybe even 4th, the way I have the trans set up when it comes on it does not come on soft, it just clamps down right now. 4500 rpm might be too much for that.
I have driven the car with a 3500 stall and a 4400 stall when I had the 4L60 in it. I did like the way the 3500 drove but when I had it opened up to 4400, I only had it in there for two weeks and I pulled the trans and started the 4L80 build, partialy because I did not like the stall opened up to 4400.
I am wondering if the 3500 with the 2step and the Tbrake will be enough to make it spool up fast like it did at 4500, 10 degrees of timing and no load.
Thanks
06-19-2010, 10:48 PM
#2
Well you basicially did the antilag thing that manual cars do. They retard hell out of the timing and they can build good boost with the two step. Ask me how I know!
Now I would say if you were footbraking and loading the car obviously that the 10 degree timing reduction won't do much. In fact thought here auto turbo cars liked more timing not less. Opposite of the manuals.
But since you have a t brake then that is sort of neutral so maybe antilag strategy does work.
So if you put on the t brake does it build boost in drive too ? Or am I not following this correctly?
Anyway with a big enough stall you seem to be able to make boost. Not a big suprise there since your turbo has a very high spool up rpm.
But as you said can you live with a very high stall.
I am pretty happy with my py3400 its not that loose around town but works fine when you put the hammer down. But sure circle d can build you a pretty driveable stall too.
It is fun to leave the line with boost. I should have got a transbrake when did my 4l80 but figured since won't be tracking much no real need.I hear they are not that great on the street??
But at least with transbrake you no longer worry if the breaks hold or you push thru them. That is kinda nice.
Now I would say if you were footbraking and loading the car obviously that the 10 degree timing reduction won't do much. In fact thought here auto turbo cars liked more timing not less. Opposite of the manuals.
But since you have a t brake then that is sort of neutral so maybe antilag strategy does work.
So if you put on the t brake does it build boost in drive too ? Or am I not following this correctly?
Anyway with a big enough stall you seem to be able to make boost. Not a big suprise there since your turbo has a very high spool up rpm.
But as you said can you live with a very high stall.
I am pretty happy with my py3400 its not that loose around town but works fine when you put the hammer down. But sure circle d can build you a pretty driveable stall too.
It is fun to leave the line with boost. I should have got a transbrake when did my 4l80 but figured since won't be tracking much no real need.I hear they are not that great on the street??
But at least with transbrake you no longer worry if the breaks hold or you push thru them. That is kinda nice.
06-20-2010, 12:23 AM
#4
Well you basicially did the antilag thing that manual cars do. They retard hell out of the timing and they can build good boost with the two step. Ask me how I know!
Now I would say if you were footbraking and loading the car obviously that the 10 degree timing reduction won't do much. In fact thought here auto turbo cars liked more timing not less. Opposite of the manuals.
But since you have a t brake then that is sort of neutral so maybe antilag strategy does work.
So if you put on the t brake does it build boost in drive too ? Or am I not following this correctly?
Anyway with a big enough stall you seem to be able to make boost. Not a big suprise there since your turbo has a very high spool up rpm.
But as you said can you live with a very high stall.
I am pretty happy with my py3400 its not that loose around town but works fine when you put the hammer down. But sure circle d can build you a pretty driveable stall too.
It is fun to leave the line with boost. I should have got a transbrake when did my 4l80 but figured since won't be tracking much no real need.I hear they are not that great on the street??
But at least with transbrake you no longer worry if the breaks hold or you push thru them. That is kinda nice.
Now I would say if you were footbraking and loading the car obviously that the 10 degree timing reduction won't do much. In fact thought here auto turbo cars liked more timing not less. Opposite of the manuals.
But since you have a t brake then that is sort of neutral so maybe antilag strategy does work.
So if you put on the t brake does it build boost in drive too ? Or am I not following this correctly?
Anyway with a big enough stall you seem to be able to make boost. Not a big suprise there since your turbo has a very high spool up rpm.
But as you said can you live with a very high stall.
I am pretty happy with my py3400 its not that loose around town but works fine when you put the hammer down. But sure circle d can build you a pretty driveable stall too.
It is fun to leave the line with boost. I should have got a transbrake when did my 4l80 but figured since won't be tracking much no real need.I hear they are not that great on the street??
But at least with transbrake you no longer worry if the breaks hold or you push thru them. That is kinda nice.
What I need to figure out is how much stall speed I need while on the Tbrake and 2step. I need enough so the turbo will spool up.
Looking at the Circle D web sight, I can go up to 3500 max with the 258mm convertor he sent me. I am afraid i need the 245mm convertor. It starts at 3000 and can be set up all the way up to 4400. I hope he will switch me out for the 245mm one. I will have to call Monday and find out. I am sure the 258mm is going to be too tight for my setup. We will wait until Monday to find out.
06-20-2010, 12:27 AM
#5
The problem with the brake is my convertor is way too tight, it is holding at 2000 right at the begining of WOT, then slowly climbs to 2700, I think I am going to need something that will go up to the 4000-4500 range. I did have 30ish in it when on the break.
06-20-2010, 01:04 AM
#6
) He told me to make it efficient on the big end, it will be loose on the bottom end and have low torque multiplication (compared to N/A converters). It is loose, but I can cruise around at around 2200ish if I wanted, but it does feel kinda like a CVT transmission (throttle input input determines RPM).
06-20-2010, 03:20 AM
#7
There is a large difference in how each company does their converters for turbo cars. My 9.5" Vig stalled to 3000 and was tight driving around, but too tight to build boost quickly. My PTC I got through Dusty Bradford (several fast turbo guys recommended him to me) is even better. Stalls 3600 on the brake before building boost and is tighter than the Vigilante it replaced that only stalled to 3000. I know I could have mine loosened up more and still be happy with how it drives because it's that good driving around.
Video of how my car drives
http://www.streetfire.net/video/new-...ipi_739094.htm
The right converter makes or breaks a setup.
Video of how my car drives
http://www.streetfire.net/video/new-...ipi_739094.htm
The right converter makes or breaks a setup.
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06-20-2010, 10:55 AM
#8
Happy to see you making progress.
The timing retard strategy does not work under load (tbrake or footbrake) but it should also not be needed as the real load will replace the artificial load created by the retarded timing.
As for the converter at 4400 feeling sloppy, like Zombie said, all converters are not created equal. I believe that the stator design plays heavily into the "feel". At part throttle, my FTI 4500 ish converter is real tight and doesn't feel mushy taking off. I tuned a car with a Vig 3300 or something the other day that felt very mushy out of the hole. You are now in a better position to get your converter setup correctly by Circle D as you can tell them what it is actually doing in your combo right now and can tell them what you want it to be doing instead.
The timing retard strategy does not work under load (tbrake or footbrake) but it should also not be needed as the real load will replace the artificial load created by the retarded timing.
As for the converter at 4400 feeling sloppy, like Zombie said, all converters are not created equal. I believe that the stator design plays heavily into the "feel". At part throttle, my FTI 4500 ish converter is real tight and doesn't feel mushy taking off. I tuned a car with a Vig 3300 or something the other day that felt very mushy out of the hole. You are now in a better position to get your converter setup correctly by Circle D as you can tell them what it is actually doing in your combo right now and can tell them what you want it to be doing instead.
06-20-2010, 10:59 AM
#9
You have that right brother.
So, if it will build boost (125kpa) in neutral with the 2step and 10 degrees of timing at 4500 rpm in less then 2 seconds, how much stall should I have Circle D set the convertor up for?
I am thinking about 4500, that way on the tbrake I can set my 2step between 4000 and 4500, with the load of the tbrake maybe I can get it to build 6-10psi, then flash the rest of the way once the trbake is let loose. I am trying to get the front tires off the ground too.
What do yall think.
So, if it will build boost (125kpa) in neutral with the 2step and 10 degrees of timing at 4500 rpm in less then 2 seconds, how much stall should I have Circle D set the convertor up for?
I am thinking about 4500, that way on the tbrake I can set my 2step between 4000 and 4500, with the load of the tbrake maybe I can get it to build 6-10psi, then flash the rest of the way once the trbake is let loose. I am trying to get the front tires off the ground too.
What do yall think.
06-20-2010, 11:11 AM
#10
Happy to see you making progress.
The timing retard strategy does not work under load (tbrake or footbrake) but it should also not be needed as the real load will replace the artificial load created by the retarded timing.
As for the converter at 4400 feeling sloppy, like Zombie said, all converters are not created equal. I believe that the stator design plays heavily into the "feel". At part throttle, my FTI 4500 ish converter is real tight and doesn't feel mushy taking off. I tuned a car with a Vig 3300 or something the other day that felt very mushy out of the hole. You are now in a better position to get your converter setup correctly by Circle D as you can tell them what it is actually doing in your combo right now and can tell them what you want it to be doing instead.
The timing retard strategy does not work under load (tbrake or footbrake) but it should also not be needed as the real load will replace the artificial load created by the retarded timing.
As for the converter at 4400 feeling sloppy, like Zombie said, all converters are not created equal. I believe that the stator design plays heavily into the "feel". At part throttle, my FTI 4500 ish converter is real tight and doesn't feel mushy taking off. I tuned a car with a Vig 3300 or something the other day that felt very mushy out of the hole. You are now in a better position to get your converter setup correctly by Circle D as you can tell them what it is actually doing in your combo right now and can tell them what you want it to be doing instead.
So do ya'll think 4500 is going to be just right?
06-20-2010, 11:35 AM
#11
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Whoa, yeah that definitely too tight. My converter from Mike Ridings (I think hes now out of the converter business) speced for my future turbo build feels pretty loose (3500 stall). Flashes to dead on 3500 rpm from idle (3800 on the brake) but has less than 3% slip on the big end(granted I'm not turboed just yet ) He told me to make it efficient on the big end, it will be loose on the bottom end and have low torque multiplication (compared to N/A converters). It is loose, but I can cruise around at around 2200ish if I wanted, but it does feel kinda like a CVT transmission (throttle input input determines RPM).
) He told me to make it efficient on the big end, it will be loose on the bottom end and have low torque multiplication (compared to N/A converters). It is loose, but I can cruise around at around 2200ish if I wanted, but it does feel kinda like a CVT transmission (throttle input input determines RPM).
06-20-2010, 11:38 AM
#12
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Good to see you testing a few things... Sounds like your getting close... you dont need the converter to be 4500 stall... You just need the converter a Bit more lose to it will get into the power a bit more so you can pull to your 2step rpm and be able "build" to your 2 step.. and let the 2step compound it... I have talked to Chris for you last week and we were bolth watching to see you post the info on the stall you have.... Chris has lots more choices with pumps and stators out there and you have a very tight setup now... plenty of room to losen it up !... Nothing makes power at 2600 on the Tbrake unless its a cummings...
06-20-2010, 04:50 PM
#14
Good to see you testing a few things... Sounds like your getting close... you dont need the converter to be 4500 stall... You just need the converter a Bit more lose to it will get into the power a bit more so you can pull to your 2step rpm and be able "build" to your 2 step.. and let the 2step compound it... I have talked to Chris for you last week and we were bolth watching to see you post the info on the stall you have.... Chris has lots more choices with pumps and stators out there and you have a very tight setup now... plenty of room to losen it up !... Nothing makes power at 2600 on the Tbrake unless its a cummings...
I need to figure out were I need to be at. I am seriously thinking 4000-4500 is were I need to be.
06-20-2010, 04:54 PM
#15
No, I will be moving everything up front after Elk season. There are just too many things about a rear mount that I do not like, at least a rear mount on an f-body. I guess you could say I built the rear mount first just to prove to myself I could do it, and to learn what I needed to do. Now I am ready to move on to the front mount.
06-20-2010, 05:16 PM
#16
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No point in throwing money at your converter to suit your rear mount if your gonna move it up front and find the stall no longer suitable.
Move the turbo then play with the converter.
Move the turbo then play with the converter.
06-20-2010, 08:12 PM
#17
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What makes you say that? Mike built my billet converter also and its awesome. He calls me all the time and never said anything about stopping his converter gig. I do know hes been very busy building transmissions for the local street racers as its that time of the year again
06-20-2010, 09:02 PM
#18
What makes you say that? Mike built my billet converter also and its awesome. He calls me all the time and never said anything about stopping his converter gig. I do know hes been very busy building transmissions for the local street racers as its that time of the year again