dhdenney

iTrader: (53)

I didn't post this in the PCM section because well, no one seems to ever help me there. So I've had my BS3, 6.0, gt47-80 setup actually running for a bit but I keep running into problems or in this case, seem to have taken several steps back.

BACKGROUND:
Car ran without little issue first time around but ran rich as hell. I farted with it a while and finally noticed MAP was showing near 300kPa at idle and knew that wasn't right. So I thought the sensor was bad and bought another 3.3 bar map that was plug and play only to have the same issue. So I bought an old GM 3 bar with the green weatherpack connector. Then the car wouldn't start. I referred to the BS3 guide and I had pin A and C switched because I failed to realize they needed swapping when I cut the pigtail. So I was grounding the power wire. Fixed the pins and fired right up.

THE NEW PROBLEM:
MAP still in my eyes isn't acting right. It will switch between 140kPa on up to 260 kpa but hover around 260 kPa most of the time. A change but no progress it seems. Just for the hell of it, I changed the MAP in the hardware config to 2 bar and it ran a little better. Then I changed it to 1 bar and it ran pretty damn good and would actually idle on its own. WTF?! My biggest concern though is the O2 flatlined at 15.9. I wonder if I shorted it when I inverted those pins? I took it out and cleaned it but nothing. Just kill me.

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

tuner in the area to take a look at it for you?

do you know what the intake vac. actually is via a gauge and you are comparing it or just making assumptions on what is appropriate and that you have no leaks.

98Z28CobraKiller

iTrader: (17)

With the engine off and the key on, it should read 100-105 kpa. If it doesn't, your configuration is screwed up. Basic sensor configuration should be provided by the distributor or BS3 direct. These are the very basics.

dhdenney

iTrader: (53)

No. No real tuners in the area. I am just assuming so I guess I need to get my hands on a gauge. No leaks to speak of.

dhdenney

iTrader: (53)

Key on and it reads 260-280 or something. But why? What do I need to look at? And what has happened to my O2?

dhdenney

iTrader: (53)

Spoke to Leo at BS3 and he confirmed that my O2 was probably dead. He said watch the UEGOR readings and it should start scaling down to 80 as that thing warms up. So I'm in the market for a new O2 sensor. He also said key on and the MAP should read 100-101 or something since that's atmospheric pressure. Makes sense. Basically said should not have to start the motor to check the MAP. At this point that part of my computer is now screwed or the sensor given to me didn't cross correctly or something else.

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

double check you have the right map selected in the config table.

dhdenney

iTrader: (53)

Yeah I'm 99.99% sure I had that right. Leo also mentioned to make sure they crossed my PN's correct (I have a Borg Warner unit). He said because that was never on a production vehicle, it's really easy to screw up your cross references. Oh and the more I think about it, I think they might have crossed the numbers wrong because as I mentioned in the first post--I noticed considerable positive changes going from 3 to 2 and 2 to 1. So the car ran pretty damn good set up as a 1 bar--which seems to substantiate that my changes were confirmed and that section of board isn't blown. Agree or disagree?

bad6as

iTrader: (17)

MAKE SURE ITS A REAL 3 BAR!!!!!
i ran in to the same issue. the 3 bar i bought was a 1 bar. their for the 3 bar tune paired up with the 1 bar sensor would make it go full rich.
key on with sensor unplugged you should see 1.66 volts. at the signal wire

dhdenney

iTrader: (53)

Yeah I'm calling in a Borg Warner EC1678 tomorrow. I'm not sure what PN I have currently since the car's at my parents' house. Hoping it's NOT that so I can have a shard of hope left.

427

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like you have a 1 bar sensor. The plug on a 3 bar is orange, the green plug should not go in.

Kurt

bad6as

iTrader: (17)

yea 3 bar should be orange and on the one it should have a slit in it

van383

iTrader: (1)

get a gm 3 bar and be done not the napa stuff imo..

dhdenney

iTrader: (53)

The Borg Warner is made in the USA and is what the parts store can get for a fraction. If it were made in China I probably would (get a GM).

Julio

The sensor must read on it the following part number
12223861
If it doesnt, then its not a sensor you want to use.

There is no aftermarket equivalent from any autoparts store for a 3bar. The only production vehicle with a 3 bar is the 1989 Turbo Trans Am.

Places to get a 3 bar, GM dealer.. AC Delco distributor.. MSD/FAST/BS3/etc.. the MSD number is a 2313..

I sell them for 70.00. And again, there are chinese repro's making their way into the marketplace.. dont buy one if the GM number is not stamped on it. Your engine depends on it. Not a place to cheap out.

I'll give you the easy way to test a MAP sensor. All MAP sensors work of off 5volt supply. The scaling is a divide by the amount of bars. Example 3 bar reads 1.6 volts at sea level. 2 bar reads 2.3 volts. 1 bar reads 4.7 volts. This measurement is done at the center pin of the MAP plug.

When you set your computer to read a 3 bar map, its expecting 1.6volts on the signal to align the 100 KPA reading. If you dont get the 100 KPA right... you'll never get the engine running correctly. There should be a screen where you can do a sensor calibration.. and then tweak it a little.. in case it reads 98 KPA or 102 KPA to zero it to 100 KPA. This 100 KPA deal is like building a house.. you need the foundation right before the walls go up. And running the engine with the MAP messed up all its going to do is wash down your cylinders, mess up your O2, etc..

Sound like you where sold the wrong sensor. And at that point didnt have proper direction how to wire it. Now your in the middle of that storm.

Hope this helps.

dhdenney

iTrader: (53)

I had my dad check out that PN and call me this morning. Apparently it's an EC1603 and I have ordered an EC1678 already. According to the turbo FAQ, this is the Borg Warner PN I need.

dhdenney

iTrader: (53)

Hooked up my EC1678 and with key on, reads about 97 kPa. After a few no starts, not even a single hiccup, I started to get disgusted. I tried one more crank and I started hearing "foomp foomp foomp" so I held on it what seemed like forever and it finally started. Read about 50 kPa at idle but carried on and backfired and did not accelerate smoothly so I must have a vacuum leak. O2 started working a little and would scale 12.0-15.0 but would sometimes die for a second. The thing that puzzles me is the crazy crazy crazy amount of white smoke. The engine has not a single drop of water in it so it is not headgasket.

98Z28CobraKiller

iTrader: (17)

How long has it sat outside? Could be condensation in the hotpiping or water/moisture in your gasoline.

dhdenney

iTrader: (53)

Car is not outside. It's inside a garage. Not climate controlled but a well insulated garage. The gas that was in the tank was poured in a week ago and I poured in two fresh gallons right before hand that I had got a couple hours before.

427

iTrader: (3)

Is this an engine that ran right and performed properly and then had a map sensor go bad, or is it a new ecu that has just been fitted to this car untuned?

Kurt