Which engine route?!
10-19-2010, 07:45 PM
#1
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Which engine route?! Alright I'm back again becuase I'm going to be upgrading my engine soon and cant decide which way to go. I wanted to forge the 346 but though about upgrading to an ls2 engine and forging that (the whole reason i dont want iron block is becuase of the weight) but then i got down and dirty on my thinking and was thinking about just going with an old school SBC engine (400ish) and boosting that one for the ease of parts and its a well proven engine. this is all going in my 2000 TA with a s480 on a 1.10 AR
maybe a sponsor can chime in with their thoughts? thanks for all the help
maybe a sponsor can chime in with their thoughts? thanks for all the help
10-19-2010, 08:57 PM
#3
390 cube shortblock, and we're the one and only shop to offer it.
LS2 version 390ci starts at $3699
Good balance of engine size vs. head unit flow potential
Less stroke equals a stronger piston then whats used in 402/408 (thicker ring lands)
More stroke then a 370 spools head unit many rpms faster with 390.
Our 390 piston are exclusively made by CP-Carrillo, use a gas nitrided steel top ring, napier 2nd ring, standard tension 3.00mm oil ring.
If that wasn't good enough, also uses .180" wall chrom-moly steel piston pins, thickest standard pin you will find in shelf piston.
LS2 version 390ci starts at $3699
Good balance of engine size vs. head unit flow potential
Less stroke equals a stronger piston then whats used in 402/408 (thicker ring lands)
More stroke then a 370 spools head unit many rpms faster with 390.
Our 390 piston are exclusively made by CP-Carrillo, use a gas nitrided steel top ring, napier 2nd ring, standard tension 3.00mm oil ring.
If that wasn't good enough, also uses .180" wall chrom-moly steel piston pins, thickest standard pin you will find in shelf piston.
10-20-2010, 10:22 AM
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goals for this engine is 1000hp now, my old setup got me to 744hp so everything else is ready. what all else can be done on the engine, you said it started at 3700 for the ls2. i'm sure you have the conversion kit as well? what all powerwise would this shortblock handle? thansk for the help everyone
10-20-2010, 08:20 PM
#5
goals for this engine is 1000hp now, my old setup got me to 744hp so everything else is ready. what all else can be done on the engine, you said it started at 3700 for the ls2. i'm sure you have the conversion kit as well? what all powerwise would this shortblock handle? thansk for the help everyone
Compstar H beam rods, $150
ARP main studs $188
Aftermarket cylinder head will keep head gaskets sealed, something like TFS 220 heads, Dart 225, something basic. Combined with ARP head studs.
10-20-2010, 09:26 PM
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Alright I'm back again becuase I'm going to be upgrading my engine soon and cant decide which way to go. I wanted to forge the 346 but though about upgrading to an ls2 engine and forging that (the whole reason i dont want iron block is becuase of the weight) but then i got down and dirty on my thinking and was thinking about just going with an old school SBC engine (400ish) and boosting that one for the ease of parts and its a well proven engine. this is all going in my 2000 TA with a s480 on a 1.10 AR
10-20-2010, 10:40 PM
#7
If you're worried about the number of head bolts, get an LSX block. They are 6 head bolts per cylinder and will take damn near anything you can throw at them.
If power and reliability is the goal, no question the LSX is the much better choice over the SBC.
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10-20-2010, 11:30 PM
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There is no comparison in strenght going from a SBC to an LS. The LS engines have 6 bolt mains, a deep skirted block, a much stronger valley area, structural oil pans, and head bolts that pull from the bottom.
If you're worried about the number of head bolts, get an LSX block. They are 6 head bolts per cylinder and will take damn near anything you can throw at them.
If power and reliability is the goal, no question the LSX is the much better choice over the SBC.
If you're worried about the number of head bolts, get an LSX block. They are 6 head bolts per cylinder and will take damn near anything you can throw at them.
If power and reliability is the goal, no question the LSX is the much better choice over the SBC.
I dont see the advantage of using 2 extra 3/8" ish headbolts per cylinder on the LSX.
power in sbc is not a problem.
Andy Jensens corvette with a turbo 427 sbc has been in the high 3 second range in 1/8 mile.
10-21-2010, 07:09 PM
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there are many sbc running 8s with or without a turbo.
010 blocks on n2o have been in the 5.30`s in the 1/8.
10-22-2010, 12:48 AM
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Go with the iron block and stay with the LS engine. One quick look at both blocks side by side will tell you the LS type engine is much stronger with webbing and strength built in by GM. Don't take my word for it. There is material written by GM that describes how much stronger the new block is. Also the new cathedral type heads flow better than most racing heads for the sbc.
10-23-2010, 11:22 PM
#13
Go with the iron block and stay with the LS engine. One quick look at both blocks side by side will tell you the LS type engine is much stronger with webbing and strength built in by GM. Don't take my word for it. There is material written by GM that describes how much stronger the new block is. Also the new cathedral type heads flow better than most racing heads for the sbc.
Strength wise, the LS series is much stronger and more capable than the SBC, which dates all the way back to 1955.
Not to mention putting a SBC in any car these days is about as original as putting butter on bread. SBC's have been put in damn near every car in existance with every imagineable combination of parts.
10-24-2010, 08:56 AM
#14
390 cube shortblock, and we're the one and only shop to offer it.
LS2 version 390ci starts at $3699
Good balance of engine size vs. head unit flow potential
Less stroke equals a stronger piston then whats used in 402/408 (thicker ring lands)
More stroke then a 370 spools head unit many rpms faster with 390.
Our 390 piston are exclusively made by CP-Carrillo, use a gas nitrided steel top ring, napier 2nd ring, standard tension 3.00mm oil ring.
If that wasn't good enough, also uses .180" wall chrom-moly steel piston pins, thickest standard pin you will find in shelf piston.
LS2 version 390ci starts at $3699
Good balance of engine size vs. head unit flow potential
Less stroke equals a stronger piston then whats used in 402/408 (thicker ring lands)
More stroke then a 370 spools head unit many rpms faster with 390.
Our 390 piston are exclusively made by CP-Carrillo, use a gas nitrided steel top ring, napier 2nd ring, standard tension 3.00mm oil ring.
If that wasn't good enough, also uses .180" wall chrom-moly steel piston pins, thickest standard pin you will find in shelf piston.
10-24-2010, 07:15 PM
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Go with the iron block and stay with the LS engine. One quick look at both blocks side by side will tell you the LS type engine is much stronger with webbing and strength built in by GM. Don't take my word for it. There is material written by GM that describes how much stronger the new block is. Also the new cathedral type heads flow better than most racing heads for the sbc.
SBC are just as strong if not stronger than LSx engines. Check out the new brodix or dart sbc shortblocks. They also offer a 4.5" bore space sbc.
Could the cathedral cylinderhead beat sb2.2 , cfe sbx , brodix/dart/gm 18*,15*,12* , allpro raised runner 23* cylinderheads?? i could go on.
55 years of sbc vs 13 years of LSx , its the way i see it.
10-24-2010, 07:30 PM
#18
SBC are just as strong if not stronger than LSx engines. Check out the new brodix or dart sbc shortblocks. They also offer a 4.5" bore space sbc.
Could the cathedral cylinderhead beat sb2.2 , cfe sbx , brodix/dart/gm 18*,15*,12* , allpro raised runner 23* cylinderheads?? i could go on.
55 years of sbc vs 13 years of LSx , its the way i see it.
Could the cathedral cylinderhead beat sb2.2 , cfe sbx , brodix/dart/gm 18*,15*,12* , allpro raised runner 23* cylinderheads?? i could go on.
55 years of sbc vs 13 years of LSx , its the way i see it.
A "stock" SBC block is only good to 500 rwhp ish. So if you want to hang with a stock LQ9, you'll need to start with an aftermarket SBC block. That means another $2,000 before you start. I'm pretty sure that no stock SBC head can hang with the flow numbers of a stock 317. So now you have to drop money on heads as well just to be the same.
There is no question, atleast with me, that if money is no object, you can go faster with a no holds bared SBC. If your goal is under 1500 hp, it's way cheaper to build a reliable LSx platform.
10-24-2010, 08:43 PM
#19
SBC are just as strong if not stronger than LSx engines. Check out the new brodix or dart sbc shortblocks. They also offer a 4.5" bore space sbc.
Could the cathedral cylinderhead beat sb2.2 , cfe sbx , brodix/dart/gm 18*,15*,12* , allpro raised runner 23* cylinderheads?? i could go on.
55 years of sbc vs 13 years of LSx , its the way i see it.
Could the cathedral cylinderhead beat sb2.2 , cfe sbx , brodix/dart/gm 18*,15*,12* , allpro raised runner 23* cylinderheads?? i could go on.
55 years of sbc vs 13 years of LSx , its the way i see it.
Engineers analyzed the SBC from top to bottom and then used the information they learned to build the LS engines. Meaning everything is a new and improved design in one way or another. The LS has a much stronger valley area, much better head bolt and valve cover design, much better intake/exhaust design (no more ancient symmetrical ports), a much stronger deep skirted block, and 6 bolt main bearings. The engine sealing of the LSx is also light years ahead of the SBC, which has a tendency to leak from everywhere. How can you argue with facts??
We're not talking aftermarket racing blocks vs. stock blocks here, we're talking stock LSx vs. stock SBC, which is what your average person can afford to build and run.
10-24-2010, 09:41 PM
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YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT. BUDGET BUILD.
A "stock" SBC block is only good to 500 rwhp ish. So if you want to hang with a stock LQ9, you'll need to start with an aftermarket SBC block. That means another $2,000 before you start. I'm pretty sure that no stock SBC head can hang with the flow numbers of a stock 317. So now you have to drop money on heads as well just to be the same.
There is no question, atleast with me, that if money is no object, you can go faster with a no holds bared SBC. If your goal is under 1500 hp, it's way cheaper to build a reliable LSx platform.
A "stock" SBC block is only good to 500 rwhp ish. So if you want to hang with a stock LQ9, you'll need to start with an aftermarket SBC block. That means another $2,000 before you start. I'm pretty sure that no stock SBC head can hang with the flow numbers of a stock 317. So now you have to drop money on heads as well just to be the same.
There is no question, atleast with me, that if money is no object, you can go faster with a no holds bared SBC. If your goal is under 1500 hp, it's way cheaper to build a reliable LSx platform.
so far in this thread the original poster has not mentioned the word budget or how much is in his budget.
Engineers analyzed the SBC from top to bottom and then used the information they learned to build the LS engines. Meaning everything is a new and improved design in one way or another. The LS has a much stronger valley area, much better head bolt and valve cover design, much better intake/exhaust design (no more ancient symmetrical ports), a much stronger deep skirted block, and 6 bolt main bearings. The engine sealing of the LSx is also light years ahead of the SBC, which has a tendency to leak from everywhere. How can you argue with facts??
We're not talking aftermarket racing blocks vs. stock blocks here, we're talking stock LSx vs. stock SBC, which is what your average person can afford to build and run.
We're not talking aftermarket racing blocks vs. stock blocks here, we're talking stock LSx vs. stock SBC, which is what your average person can afford to build and run.