My water/meth results***no intercooler meth users inside***
05-26-2014, 12:47 PM
#1
My water/meth results***no intercooler meth users inside*** Kit is a AIS 3 nozzle. 2 nozzles pre TB, and one pre turbo.
So I have 5 passes logged with the water methanol mixer of 50% methanol 50% water. I had it coming on how AIS recommended at 15 psi. With a max boost pressure of 20 psi. At the line I was seeing about 145-150 degree IAT temps. Once spooled and leaving the line it was near 160. Then slowly climbed to a max of 190 then would dip down about 5-10 degrees by the time I came out of WOT. So not sure if the meth came on too late, or if the mixture needs to be different. Compared to my data from last year it was near the same IAT at the launch then would rise to 210/215 on average steady over the pass till out of WOT. One thing that did not change much at all was the AFR with the mixture. I figured it would richen it, but not much if any as far as i could tell.
So from here im going to give AIS a call tomorrow and see what they recommend. I need that IAT as low as possible so I can put some timing back in this pig. Right now only going at it with 14.5/16.0 degrees of overall advance timing in boost.
Anyone had similar results?
________________
So I have 5 passes logged with the water methanol mixer of 50% methanol 50% water. I had it coming on how AIS recommended at 15 psi. With a max boost pressure of 20 psi. At the line I was seeing about 145-150 degree IAT temps. Once spooled and leaving the line it was near 160. Then slowly climbed to a max of 190 then would dip down about 5-10 degrees by the time I came out of WOT. So not sure if the meth came on too late, or if the mixture needs to be different. Compared to my data from last year it was near the same IAT at the launch then would rise to 210/215 on average steady over the pass till out of WOT. One thing that did not change much at all was the AFR with the mixture. I figured it would richen it, but not much if any as far as i could tell.
So from here im going to give AIS a call tomorrow and see what they recommend. I need that IAT as low as possible so I can put some timing back in this pig. Right now only going at it with 14.5/16.0 degrees of overall advance timing in boost.
Anyone had similar results?
________________
05-26-2014, 01:10 PM
#2
If you didn't see much of change in fueling I'd be suspect of how much you are actually injecting
How big of nozzles?
I spray a single 7gpm nozzle non progressively and it moves my fueling .4 on 50/50
I wouldn't get into what a lot of people claim for IAT reductions, most are spraying on the sensor
My Iat sensor is very far from my nozzle.. I see around a 30* change
How big of nozzles?
I spray a single 7gpm nozzle non progressively and it moves my fueling .4 on 50/50
I wouldn't get into what a lot of people claim for IAT reductions, most are spraying on the sensor
My Iat sensor is very far from my nozzle.. I see around a 30* change
05-26-2014, 04:44 PM
#4
Just checked a log file i did on a street pull to compare, but we are way different. My intercooled setup on a cooler day was 80 degrees and went down to 45 degrees. My Sensor is before the throttle body using 100% meth..
05-26-2014, 05:27 PM
#5
When driving my IAT are about 5-20 above ambient temp. I have a street pull log as well and it starts at 81* and slowly climbs to about 150*. I am going to call Rodney @ AIS tomorrow and see what he has to say but I want it to come on sooner. I leave the line at 8-12 psi depending on track conditions, not sure what it would do if it came on during spool up.
Trending Topics
05-28-2014, 10:58 PM
#14
Yes the nozzle is mounted to the turbo and aimed directly at the compressor wheels about 2 inchs away from it. Are any of you racing your cars? I launch the car around 8-10 psi so Im thinking its not the best idea to spray on the brake bouncing off the 2 step. Also looked at my nozzle size today and they are dual 4 on the intake pipe and a 18 on the pre turbo
05-29-2014, 07:31 AM
#16
Yes the nozzle is mounted to the turbo and aimed directly at the compressor wheels about 2 inchs away from it. Are any of you racing your cars? I launch the car around 8-10 psi so Im thinking its not the best idea to spray on the brake bouncing off the 2 step. Also looked at my nozzle size today and they are dual 4 on the intake pipe and a 18 on the pre turbo
I would play with activation and see where it likes to come on for the coolest temps. I don't know if spraying it on the brake would be ok. I would think it might try to foul plugs.
05-29-2014, 08:34 AM
#17
Seems really odd you don’t see AFR changes. Have you tested/calibrated your WB02 lately? Popped it out of the exhaust and verified it reads "air" or "lean" in under a minute or so?
Are you using the kit for a little insurance/cleaning? Or do you want serious power from it? I'd assume since you run no IC you want to go all out with it?
What base fuel do you run?
What timing?
What AFR?
How much boost to you launch at?
Is this a progressive kit?
Have you verified the actual pump pressure? (Lots of the older pumps won't put out near the advertised pressures with large nozzles.)
There is no "catch up" to play. Spraying earlier just wets down your sensor earlier and gives you false readings more quickly. Actual inlet temps are nowhere near what your AIT sensor is claiming. As said, its best to have your sensor as far as possible from the inj point (rear of intake possibly) or before it. The data a wet AIT sensor provides is useless. Don't tune with it.
IMO, If you want to get the most out of the kit and really get some power back you should:
Are you using the kit for a little insurance/cleaning? Or do you want serious power from it? I'd assume since you run no IC you want to go all out with it?
What base fuel do you run?
What timing?
What AFR?
How much boost to you launch at?
Is this a progressive kit?
Have you verified the actual pump pressure? (Lots of the older pumps won't put out near the advertised pressures with large nozzles.)
There is no "catch up" to play. Spraying earlier just wets down your sensor earlier and gives you false readings more quickly. Actual inlet temps are nowhere near what your AIT sensor is claiming. As said, its best to have your sensor as far as possible from the inj point (rear of intake possibly) or before it. The data a wet AIT sensor provides is useless. Don't tune with it.
IMO, If you want to get the most out of the kit and really get some power back you should:
1.) Go 100% meth. Adjust AFR. Add boost before timing IMO. (depending on answer to above questions)
2.) Get a progressive controller. Have the turn on point set just above your launch boost. Full in by 18psi or so if the goal is 20.
3.) Look into a 300psi pump for better atomization/distribution. (final pressures won't be near 300psi with several large nozzles)
4.) Run 35+ gph of nozzle pre TB.
5.) Put a smaller (6gph is fine IMO) nozzle pre-turbo to atomize the mixture better and aid a tad with "wet compression" and charge cooling. Over saturating the inlet air with huge nozzles serves no purpose and can actually hurt performance. The more you spray, the more air you displace with liquid. You want the turbo to take the biggest "bite" of air per revolution as it can. If a large percentage of each bite is filled with water, you aren't doing yourself any favors. Large amounts of liquid will actually slow the turbo down and large enough droplets (esp when using water) can damage the blades. Big difference between cooling the charge and saturating it with fluid.
2.) Get a progressive controller. Have the turn on point set just above your launch boost. Full in by 18psi or so if the goal is 20.
3.) Look into a 300psi pump for better atomization/distribution. (final pressures won't be near 300psi with several large nozzles)
4.) Run 35+ gph of nozzle pre TB.
5.) Put a smaller (6gph is fine IMO) nozzle pre-turbo to atomize the mixture better and aid a tad with "wet compression" and charge cooling. Over saturating the inlet air with huge nozzles serves no purpose and can actually hurt performance. The more you spray, the more air you displace with liquid. You want the turbo to take the biggest "bite" of air per revolution as it can. If a large percentage of each bite is filled with water, you aren't doing yourself any favors. Large amounts of liquid will actually slow the turbo down and large enough droplets (esp when using water) can damage the blades. Big difference between cooling the charge and saturating it with fluid.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 05-29-2014 at 09:36 AM.
05-29-2014, 07:56 PM
#19
Im having the same issues. I have a BW S475 with dual #6 sno nozzles. I belive its about 21.5 GPH combined. Im spraying into the charge pipe and have the IAT in the manifold. The car gets rich as hell but intake temps will not go lower than 175 degrees. I was thinking of doing a 70/30 mixture......
BTW, I also non intercooled and have about 1 foot of charge pipe between the turbo and TB.
BTW, I also non intercooled and have about 1 foot of charge pipe between the turbo and TB.