Dual air to water intercoolers...
07-08-2014, 03:17 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Dual air to water intercoolers... This is more a question of theory, not a particular application. And I have searched, but I cannot find what I am looking for.
My question is, can one large a2w intercooler provide the same results as two separate smaller units? I am not talking about two cores sharing one pump and one radiator. Two a2w cores, each with their own radiator.
Running them in series, that way the second intercooler is cooling air that has already passed through an intercooler.
How could one large intercooler possibly be better than this?
Once again, this is just theory. I came here because I generally trust the information on this site.
For the purpose of this discussion, my questions are more directed towards road use, not drag racing.
I was thinking that one a2w intercooler would be mounted in place of the battery, with a second a2w core mounted where the original air box was. A pipe going from the outlet of one to the inlet of the other.
Each core has its own radiator/fan mounted in front of the car's radiator.
Would one large intercooler provide better cooling? I am open to input and please correct me if I am just flat out wrong.
My question is, can one large a2w intercooler provide the same results as two separate smaller units? I am not talking about two cores sharing one pump and one radiator. Two a2w cores, each with their own radiator.
Running them in series, that way the second intercooler is cooling air that has already passed through an intercooler.
How could one large intercooler possibly be better than this?
Once again, this is just theory. I came here because I generally trust the information on this site.
For the purpose of this discussion, my questions are more directed towards road use, not drag racing.
I was thinking that one a2w intercooler would be mounted in place of the battery, with a second a2w core mounted where the original air box was. A pipe going from the outlet of one to the inlet of the other.
Each core has its own radiator/fan mounted in front of the car's radiator.
Would one large intercooler provide better cooling? I am open to input and please correct me if I am just flat out wrong.
07-08-2014, 03:36 PM
#2
I agree with the theory. Real world results may differ based on efficiency. One very large and efficient A2W would be better than 2 that are under size. Be prepared for the A2A arguments in a road car. They are coming!! :-)
On a related note, why not integrate the a/c system into an A2W type setup? You would certainly eliminate the debate on which setup cools the air more! I want to say some of the Lightning guys were experimenting with this idea.
On a related note, why not integrate the a/c system into an A2W type setup? You would certainly eliminate the debate on which setup cools the air more! I want to say some of the Lightning guys were experimenting with this idea.
07-08-2014, 04:20 PM
#3
No, the second cooler wouldnt be doing dick in series like that. The greater the temp delta the better.
Much better off two in parallel .
Just adding complexity to for no results
Much better off two in parallel .
Just adding complexity to for no results
07-08-2014, 05:25 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
I actually just read about the lightning a/c condensed heat exchanger. I like the concept. There is a company called killerchiller that piggybacks the factory a/c system into your intercooler in a similar fashion.
As for the second intercooler in a series doing nothing. I am not trying to start an argument, but even if the larger temperature difference nets the larger amount of cooling, wouldn't any temperature difference still allow further cooling?
The water in the second intercooler should always be ambient air temperature, or close to. So if the air exiting the first intercooler is anything above ambient, the second intercooler should still cool it... in theory.
The first intercooler in the series would have a reservoir in the trunk. The second intercooler could probably get away with just the water in the core and heat exchanger, because it theoretically never sees the same high temperatures as the first intercooler.
I guess my theory would be the same for mounting an a2w intercooler after an A:A intercooler. Best of both worlds?
As for the second intercooler in a series doing nothing. I am not trying to start an argument, but even if the larger temperature difference nets the larger amount of cooling, wouldn't any temperature difference still allow further cooling?
The water in the second intercooler should always be ambient air temperature, or close to. So if the air exiting the first intercooler is anything above ambient, the second intercooler should still cool it... in theory.
The first intercooler in the series would have a reservoir in the trunk. The second intercooler could probably get away with just the water in the core and heat exchanger, because it theoretically never sees the same high temperatures as the first intercooler.
I guess my theory would be the same for mounting an a2w intercooler after an A:A intercooler. Best of both worlds?
07-08-2014, 07:24 PM
#6
One big core will do the such a good job if it is sized right and you have enough water to sock up the heat that it's simplicity will out weight the other system.
You need a A/W IC that is a double pass cooler, meaning the water runs across one half of the core then across the end tank and back across the other half of the core.
This way you can take the heat out in stages. The coldest water pass across the exit side if the core first and the it pass's across the intake side.
My twin turbo system is setup this way. With ambient water temps we have never seen AIT's more that 15-20 degrees above ambient air temps. @ 1000+ HP
Your idea is a good one, and it will work well. But it can be done with one core.
Don't put any part of the IC system in the engine bay other than the pipe connected to the TB.
You don't need a huge pump or giant hoses.
We use a Rule 2000 pump and 3/4 id hose.
You need a A/W IC that is a double pass cooler, meaning the water runs across one half of the core then across the end tank and back across the other half of the core.
This way you can take the heat out in stages. The coldest water pass across the exit side if the core first and the it pass's across the intake side.
My twin turbo system is setup this way. With ambient water temps we have never seen AIT's more that 15-20 degrees above ambient air temps. @ 1000+ HP
Your idea is a good one, and it will work well. But it can be done with one core.
Don't put any part of the IC system in the engine bay other than the pipe connected to the TB.
You don't need a huge pump or giant hoses.
We use a Rule 2000 pump and 3/4 id hose.
Last edited by Chris@CBR; 07-08-2014 at 07:42 PM.
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07-08-2014, 09:39 PM
#8
Yes it would. Pressure drop is something that we will have to live with when using a intercooler. If the intercooler is doing it's job soaking up the heat there will be some drop due to the air shrinking.
07-09-2014, 07:20 AM
#9
I say just try to get as much core in there as you can. it will help with cool down times if nothing else*
*most of the heat in a air to water system is rejected via the intake air when you close the throttle.
*most of the heat in a air to water system is rejected via the intake air when you close the throttle.
07-09-2014, 06:12 PM
#11
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One big core will do the such a good job if it is sized right and you have enough water to sock up the heat that it's simplicity will out weight the other system.
You need a A/W IC that is a double pass cooler, meaning the water runs across one half of the core then across the end tank and back across the other half of the core.
This way you can take the heat out in stages. The coldest water pass across the exit side if the core first and the it pass's across the intake side.
My twin turbo system is setup this way. With ambient water temps we have never seen AIT's more that 15-20 degrees above ambient air temps. @ 1000+ HP
Your idea is a good one, and it will work well. But it can be done with one core.
Don't put any part of the IC system in the engine bay other than the pipe connected to the TB.
You don't need a huge pump or giant hoses.
We use a Rule 2000 pump and 3/4 id hose.
You need a A/W IC that is a double pass cooler, meaning the water runs across one half of the core then across the end tank and back across the other half of the core.
This way you can take the heat out in stages. The coldest water pass across the exit side if the core first and the it pass's across the intake side.
My twin turbo system is setup this way. With ambient water temps we have never seen AIT's more that 15-20 degrees above ambient air temps. @ 1000+ HP
Your idea is a good one, and it will work well. But it can be done with one core.
Don't put any part of the IC system in the engine bay other than the pipe connected to the TB.
You don't need a huge pump or giant hoses.
We use a Rule 2000 pump and 3/4 id hose.
07-10-2014, 07:11 AM
#12