Why not regap rings on 100k JY motors. Also ls2 style piston ?'s
08-12-2014, 09:32 PM
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Why not regap rings on 100k JY motors. Also ls2 style piston ?'s I've got this 05 lq4 with ls2 style rods/pistons with 120k miles that I'm going to throw some valve springs, studs, cam and a couple other odds and ends into but when it comes to the bottom end i'm not sure what to do with it. The truck I pulled it from ran fine so I'm pretty confident that the motor is in solid running order. I'll be using this motor as a backup motor or sticking it into a swap car but haven't decided. I hear guys say "don't touch ring gap if over 100k miles" often but I never hear why. So that is my first question. Y U no touch ring gaps on high mile motors?
My second question is that all the info about ringlands butting and gaps I see on here primarily resides around the older ls1 style rods and pistons but rarely do I see any data on the ls2 piston/rods specifically. I've seen the pics and I understand the differences in construction, but I guess what I'm asking is, are there differences in the ringlands and ring gaps between the older and newer pistons. Are the ls2 pistons just as susceptible to ringland failure as the ls1 pistons?
My second question is that all the info about ringlands butting and gaps I see on here primarily resides around the older ls1 style rods and pistons but rarely do I see any data on the ls2 piston/rods specifically. I've seen the pics and I understand the differences in construction, but I guess what I'm asking is, are there differences in the ringlands and ring gaps between the older and newer pistons. Are the ls2 pistons just as susceptible to ringland failure as the ls1 pistons?
08-13-2014, 08:13 AM
#2
Not that this will be a huge help, but I will share my experience anyway...
I had a GEN III LQ4 that had 103k miles on it when I got it from the yard. A buddy and I took it apart for piece of mind (wish I wouldn't have) and everything looked great. We did put new bearings in it but never touched the ring gap. I have no idea what it was even at. That motor has been in my car (now sold) for two years, 20-25 track passes, more highway rolls/street digs than I can count, on anywhere from 600-750 rwhp.
The only thing that concerned me with mine was the weaker rods and pistons. It always had a good tuneup in it though so I never really hesitated to beat on it.
Told ya this wouldn't help out much, ha. If it were me though, I would run that hoss as is.
I had a GEN III LQ4 that had 103k miles on it when I got it from the yard. A buddy and I took it apart for piece of mind (wish I wouldn't have) and everything looked great. We did put new bearings in it but never touched the ring gap. I have no idea what it was even at. That motor has been in my car (now sold) for two years, 20-25 track passes, more highway rolls/street digs than I can count, on anywhere from 600-750 rwhp.
The only thing that concerned me with mine was the weaker rods and pistons. It always had a good tuneup in it though so I never really hesitated to beat on it.
Told ya this wouldn't help out much, ha. If it were me though, I would run that hoss as is.
08-13-2014, 10:40 AM
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120K miles worth of carbon buildup in the ring grooves would be the main reason to take it apart, just to clean it. If it's apart why wouldn't you check the ring gap?
Why wouldn't want to disassemble the engine,
#1 to know what you're investing money into,
#2 to make sure you have a solid bottom end to start with,
#3 To possible check any wear or damaged parts.
Why wouldn't want to disassemble the engine,
#1 to know what you're investing money into,
#2 to make sure you have a solid bottom end to start with,
#3 To possible check any wear or damaged parts.
08-13-2014, 10:53 AM
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Ok so I guess I'll be the o lyrics person to answer a question....lol so the reason most people say don't touch them is because there is enough ware on them that they are now loose enough to take power adders and shouldn't butt up against itself and break ring lands. That being said...... since your there and going to have the heads off I would pull a couple pistons out and pull the rings off for ***** and giggles and put rings in the bores and check your ring end gap.
As far as your second question I have no data on the ls2 as I've never tore into one. But all the lsx stuff Ive done is iron block truck stuff that we've boosted.
As far as your second question I have no data on the ls2 as I've never tore into one. But all the lsx stuff Ive done is iron block truck stuff that we've boosted.
08-13-2014, 10:53 AM
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Ok so I guess I'll be the o lyrics person to answer a question....lol so the reason most people say don't touch them is because there is enough ware on them that they are now loose enough to take power adders and shouldn't butt up against itself and break ring lands. That being said...... since your there and going to have the heads off I would pull a couple pistons out and pull the rings off for ***** and giggles and put rings in the bores and check your ring end gap.
As far as your second question I have no data on the ls2 as I've never tore into one. But all the lsx stuff Ive done is iron block truck stuff that we've boosted.
As far as your second question I have no data on the ls2 as I've never tore into one. But all the lsx stuff Ive done is iron block truck stuff that we've boosted.
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08-13-2014, 10:57 AM
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120K miles worth of carbon buildup in the ring grooves would be the main reason to take it apart, just to clean it. If it's apart why wouldn't you check the ring gap?
Why wouldn't want to disassemble the engine,
#1 to know what you're investing money into,
#2 to make sure you have a solid bottom end to start with,
#3 To possible check any wear or damaged parts.
Why wouldn't want to disassemble the engine,
#1 to know what you're investing money into,
#2 to make sure you have a solid bottom end to start with,
#3 To possible check any wear or damaged parts.
08-13-2014, 11:00 AM
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Ok so I guess I'll be the o lyrics person to answer a question....lol so the reason most people say don't touch them is because there is enough ware on them that they are now loose enough to take power adders and shouldn't butt up against itself and break ring lands. That being said...... since your there and going to have the heads off I would pull a couple pistons out and pull the rings off for ***** and giggles and put rings in the bores and check your ring end gap.
As far as your second question I have no data on the ls2 as I've never tore into one. But all the lsx stuff Ive done is iron block truck stuff that we've boosted.
As far as your second question I have no data on the ls2 as I've never tore into one. But all the lsx stuff Ive done is iron block truck stuff that we've boosted.
08-13-2014, 11:53 AM
#10
I think its more fuel based than anything. My ls1 has 50k miles on it and im well past what most consider safe for this motor. Its a pure highway car too, so it sees longgg pulls.
Ive never touched the ring gaps and I 100% believe the only reason its alive is because im on E85 and my tune is good. Its going to bend rods before it pops ringlands.
Ive never touched the ring gaps and I 100% believe the only reason its alive is because im on E85 and my tune is good. Its going to bend rods before it pops ringlands.
08-13-2014, 12:03 PM
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If you want this motor to last, make sure you have the rings on the looser side of spec. I'm running my 2nd ring in the upper 30s, and my top ring in the upper 20s. Looser is better.... In this case. Better to be to loose then to tight. I shoot for a little over service limit when boosting.
08-13-2014, 12:32 PM
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Pretty easy. Use a normal wrench/ratchet to take apart, check gaps and then assemble. You tq to spec, slap on your tq angle meter on the end of your tq wrench (they are 6.99 on ebay) tq to your angle and call it a day.
08-13-2014, 01:33 PM
#16
Yes, re-useable. However they are a Torque to Angle bolt. Torque to "x" lbft, and then "y" degrees.
For the knowledge of the thread, I pulled my 05 5.3 apart and honed the bores with a ball hone, and gapped the top and second rings to .028". Top ring was TIGHT at about .016" on all cylinders. Definitely glad I took the time to do this, for piece of mind, and to clean all the crap out of the ring lands that had accumulated over its short 60K mile life.
For the knowledge of the thread, I pulled my 05 5.3 apart and honed the bores with a ball hone, and gapped the top and second rings to .028". Top ring was TIGHT at about .016" on all cylinders. Definitely glad I took the time to do this, for piece of mind, and to clean all the crap out of the ring lands that had accumulated over its short 60K mile life.
08-13-2014, 01:42 PM
#17
120K miles worth of carbon buildup in the ring grooves would be the main reason to take it apart, just to clean it. If it's apart why wouldn't you check the ring gap?
Why wouldn't want to disassemble the engine,
#1 to know what you're investing money into,
#2 to make sure you have a solid bottom end to start with,
#3 To possible check any wear or damaged parts.
Why wouldn't want to disassemble the engine,
#1 to know what you're investing money into,
#2 to make sure you have a solid bottom end to start with,
#3 To possible check any wear or damaged parts.
.006 X bore for top and .0065 for bottom has been the standard for years on "turbo stuff". Piston material and expansion rates come into play if your getting competitive. But generally this is an overly "safe" gap for most boost apps. I've heard big names say .020 is just fine on the small bore LS as well.
Using the formula above, 3.78 bore nets you .022 top and .024 bottom. Which just happens to be around the gap the 150+k mile motors tend to have. Always good the check them though. I've seen one or two random tight rings on the motors I've torn down, but most fall into the range above. Even on pump gas builds, I see no reason to run wider gaps than .022 .024.
I also read you should not gap the rings the same as it promotes ring flutter.
Wish I had a pic of the ringlands with the rings removed... But they had to have a good 5-8% of the total depth of the ringland filled with carbon.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 08-13-2014 at 10:27 PM.
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Homer_Simpson (11-20-2021)
08-13-2014, 10:15 PM
#19
I agree with Forcefed86.
My L33 had 136k and was pretty brown inside.
The ring lands were really gunked up. The oil rings especially. It's very time consuming cleaning all this for sure.
Top rings were .019" in mine so I opened them up to .024"
Second rings were .028". I left them alone.
I just went over the bores by hand with 1200 grit wet dry.
I reused the bearings.
Put the same rings on the pistons they came from. And back in the same bore obviously. I also marked the oil ring rails as well as the top and second rings so they didn't go on upside down.
That said, I don't get a bit of blowby. Even during a drag strip pass.
I just wasn't willing to toss it in the car as is.
Ron
My L33 had 136k and was pretty brown inside.
The ring lands were really gunked up. The oil rings especially. It's very time consuming cleaning all this for sure.
Top rings were .019" in mine so I opened them up to .024"
Second rings were .028". I left them alone.
I just went over the bores by hand with 1200 grit wet dry.
I reused the bearings.
Put the same rings on the pistons they came from. And back in the same bore obviously. I also marked the oil ring rails as well as the top and second rings so they didn't go on upside down.
That said, I don't get a bit of blowby. Even during a drag strip pass.
I just wasn't willing to toss it in the car as is.
Ron
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Homer_Simpson (11-20-2021)
