Lasershop

iTrader: (2)

Specifically, is there an electronic controller that handles boost AND meth injection all progressively? LS1 Twin-turbo Meth-injection

Money is always an object. I guess my wish list is that there is an existing device that will control progressive boost, progressive meth injection, and interface with a tuning software. Maybe have AUX inputs and outputs too.

Must be a most popular anyway. What are your setups?
RonO

willizm

iTrader: (10)

Holley Dominator is probably the best packaging to handle boost and methanol along with running the car.

nodrok

ams500 works great

LT1PWRD

iTrader: (2)

I use Innovative SCG-1. Controls boost and wideband all in one guage size setup. No meth control. I haven't tapped into all it's potential yet tho.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

Integrating it with your ECU would be the best bet if you want multiple functions. Asking a "boost controller" to control "Meth injection" is a little odd...

josh4ku

iTrader: (10)

Eboost is what I went with. I haven't been able to use it yet.

stevieturbo

Basically what you want or need is a good standalone ecu

Lasershop

iTrader: (2)

Well, I don't really think so. They go hand in hand. The meth system is there because boost is present and they kind of both read the same signals.

craig382ci

iTrader: (5)

Haltech

stevieturbo

No, the meth is there because you want it there. It's just that most basic systems choose to use boost as a measure of meth requirement rather than a correct method which would be engine demand for meth, ie load.

The two are not the same. Boost just seems to be the easiest, but it is not the most efficient method.

To do both of what you want properly, you need a full ecu

Lasershop

iTrader: (2)

You're probably right. I want it all. And I do want it done right. You're knowledge and experience humbles me and more than earns respect. Mine is a street car. C5 Vette'. You have maybe seen the build pics. Maybe not. Ive taken my time and skimped on nothing. My controller, software and tuning learning curve is vertical. Im going to stay with the cars computer. Replacing all that is way out of the plan. What economical as possible setup for boost and meth injection control would you recommend? I have looked into all of the suggestions given so far. I like the idea of a gauge controller.

One more question, Is there any point in having a dual wideband setup? I already have the bungs installed on both banks. I haven't decided what to buy for that either.

stevieturbo

I've seen the car and level of workmanship and build you're going for....I dont agree with some aspects and we've posted in the past...but nothing can overlook your attention to detail and fabrication abilities !

Whilst I'm saying a standalone ecu will do this job the best for you...dont forget, you could install the standalone primarily for these functions alone. You wouldnt have to carry out a full install taking over fuel/spark and everything else. Doing a partial install would make things a lot easier and you could likely chose a much cheaper base ecu.

But...Given the implementation of your meth injection, your DBW etc etc...from a flexibility of control, a standalone setup would make even more sense, and offer some future proof with it.


But I'm not aware of any product that would genuinely be classed as a proper boost and meth controller in one, unless you're simply aiming at an off/on pump setup for the methanol at a pre-determined boost pressure. Then there would be a few boost controllers that can do that ( via a relay of course )

But even though most progressive kits arent truly progressive with engine load, I'd still much prefer some sort of progressiveness over none at all, and using boost for this is easy.

Of course, after I've typed all the above I googled...

http://www.alamomotorsports.com/FJO/waterinjection.html

Lasershop

iTrader: (2)

Well then..... there it is!!

stevieturbo

It does seem to mention the boost control aspect is optional, so it may require some extra parts. It'd be worth phoning them to discuss.

But the implementation of their meth setup with proper mapped flow via the solenoid is better than the generic boost related controllers that PWM the pump to try and meter flow.

Plus, it will also lend itself much much better to your port injection setup anyway. Win win.

I've an old FJO wideband on my car, have had for 14 years, quality of it is superb, so would expect same from their other stuff

69-chvl

iTrader: (11)

Looks alot like the Holley stuff....

stevieturbo

That's probably because Holley bought FJO over.

69-chvl

iTrader: (11)

That might have something to do with it lol!

stevieturbo

Should probably make supply and parts easier anyway.

FJO being more expensive than some stuff just didnt seem so widely popular.

I guess with a Holley name attached it might be more appealing and have a wider distribution network.

FJO were weird and wouldnt sell direct when I bought from them years ago, it had to be through an agent of theirs. Although that might have been because it was an international sale.

69-chvl

iTrader: (11)

Thanks for posting that Steve, I always wondering why my engine wanted so little water/meth compared to some other engines, seems like its a design difference.

I think the FJO system is a good deal for a good injection system, safety features and some form of boost control. Really not that expensive when you look at all those things. And it seems to be a quality unit.

stevieturbo

Wanting and needing are two different things though.

As said before in other threads. If you are using water, then generally you will use less flow overall.
There's only so much water you can pump into an engine before it starts to have a large negative effect.
But you only require small amounts of water for effective cooling and very effective detonation suppression.

By comparison if you inject methanol only, then it's a pretty free reign, as you could inject tons and you could still tune around it so it is basically idiot proof.
People will claim meth cools more etc....it does not. But in the quantities they inject, which will be far higher than when using water, yes it cools more....but they're maybe using 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x the flow volume to achieve it so there is just no real comparison.

But where do you draw the line at a properly metered fuel input via the normal fuel system, and then another system that just dumps lots of meth in via a single outlet where there may be metering and distribution issues ?

And at what point is it a pump fuel + meth car...or a meth + pump fuel when people use tons of meth ?

With the basic systems people just re-tune their primary fuel system to cope with whatever water/meth they dump in and it works very well.

But you'd never want the primary fuel system reliant on a pump to solely meter the flow....so it sort of seems strange we're happy to do it with a meth system.

But it's the simplest and easiest way and I do it that way myself.

Port injection and flow metered via the solenoid and an ecu would be a better option, especially as some/all efi style intakes were never intended for wet flow.
It's effectively a proper dual fuel setup at that point with a pump running as normal and fuel properly metered and mapped throughout.

eg, you'd never stick a carb on the front of a Proflow, HiRam, or OEM plastic intake and expect equal mixture distribution to each cylinder. But many are happy dumping a shitload of meth in the front

I think it was ECS did a test a while back and moved to a port injection setup with their meth kit on a car and it picked up quite a considerable amount of power over the single/dual nozzle it replaced.