WPC surface treatment (anyone using this for turbos?)
01-22-2016, 02:53 PM
#1
WPC surface treatment (anyone using this for turbos?) Anyone ever hear of this process? It’s like micro shot peening. If a guy were to do this to his turbo shaft/bearings…seems like there would be some “ceramic ball bearing like” performance to be had. Spoke with the guy already $7-20 for each peace I want treated depending on the dimensions.
http://www.wpctreatment.com/
http://www.wpctreatment.com/
Last edited by Forcefed86; 01-22-2016 at 03:03 PM.
01-22-2016, 03:05 PM
#3
It strengthens the surface, just like shop peening, so less wear I'd guess. Also mention's micro pockets caused my the micro peening help hold oil. Seems weird guys haven't been doing this. Would be a great "cheater mod" for those turbo limited classes.
01-22-2016, 03:25 PM
#6
Restricted User
The real question, how is it any different from the hundreds of coatings out there? Sure, its not a coating, but at what point does that play into the end-results?
01-22-2016, 03:31 PM
#7
9 Second Club
Probably the only thing you could do with an oil journal turbo that's operating correctly to aid it's performance is use the thinnest oil possible
Although the metal treatment may help it survive longer in the event of oil supply problems ?
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01-22-2016, 03:40 PM
#8
Restricted User
I believe they make coatings for turbo shafts that keep the metal from absorbing oil. They do the same to counterweights, etc. This treatment helps the metal retain oil. Is that necessarily a good thing in a shaft spinning 60k+ RPM? It would be interesting to see some tests done.
01-22-2016, 03:49 PM
#9
If it’s peening the part, it should make it stronger as well. I’d guess/hope it would have a similar effect as the ceramic ball bearings do.
There was a display setup in a buddys shop with a journal VS triple ceramic ball bearing turbo on display. No oil in the turbos, sitting on the shelf. Customers went bat **** crazy over the ball bearing turbos because they would spin for an eternity. He said that display made him a lot of money!
I always thought BB turbos were kinda silly because of the performance vs cost factor. But if it cost me $25-50 to get a set of bearings coated and there was any decent performance to be had it seems worth looking into. By that I mean I hope someone else will see this and do it so I don’t have to.
Also that said, what kind of flow benefits could be had by treating the blades themselves with this?(both hot and cold sides) Theoretically the blades should be able to cut through the air easier with less surface tension across the blade. Which doesn’t sound like a big deal until you think about the blades spinning at 80-100k rpm.
Might not get a seat of the pants improvement from any of it, but it would have to help a little I’d think.
There was a display setup in a buddys shop with a journal VS triple ceramic ball bearing turbo on display. No oil in the turbos, sitting on the shelf. Customers went bat **** crazy over the ball bearing turbos because they would spin for an eternity. He said that display made him a lot of money!
I always thought BB turbos were kinda silly because of the performance vs cost factor. But if it cost me $25-50 to get a set of bearings coated and there was any decent performance to be had it seems worth looking into. By that I mean I hope someone else will see this and do it so I don’t have to. Also that said, what kind of flow benefits could be had by treating the blades themselves with this?(both hot and cold sides) Theoretically the blades should be able to cut through the air easier with less surface tension across the blade. Which doesn’t sound like a big deal until you think about the blades spinning at 80-100k rpm.
Might not get a seat of the pants improvement from any of it, but it would have to help a little I’d think.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 01-22-2016 at 04:06 PM.
01-22-2016, 03:57 PM
#10
Restricted User
I could see something like this being very useful in a class where you are limited to certain things.
In the real world where a bigger turbo is just $100 more, it may have its work cut out for it. Unfortunately, I don't think this would be very effective on things like cylinder walls where reduced friction would be a major game changer.
In the real world where a bigger turbo is just $100 more, it may have its work cut out for it. Unfortunately, I don't think this would be very effective on things like cylinder walls where reduced friction would be a major game changer.
01-22-2016, 04:06 PM
#11
I’d think the extreme heat and pressure placed on turbo bearings in general would prevent typical anti-friction coatings. Also tolerances are usually effected by coatings and then you have to custom machine etc. Where with this process they claim none of that is necessary.
They also mention engine bearings. I could see this helping a lot with longevity and dry starting. Also I’d have to wonder if the oil took on the shape of the bearing it rides on somewhat. If the bearing surface was say 1 million times smoother, would there not be a large friction improvement?
They also mention engine bearings. I could see this helping a lot with longevity and dry starting. Also I’d have to wonder if the oil took on the shape of the bearing it rides on somewhat. If the bearing surface was say 1 million times smoother, would there not be a large friction improvement?
01-23-2016, 03:34 AM
#12
9 Second Club
But there isnt really extreme heat and pressure on turbo bearings....the oil takes care of that
And with the BB vs oil journal debate. The more boost you use, the more a BB can be a better option especially if there is a large disparity between boost and pre turbine pressure, as that is what creates the thrust loads within the turbo.
If both are equal then loads are minimal and the BB's handle thrust loads far better.
WPC are showing the coatings, giving a strange demo of how they can work....but are they giving real world applications and measured benefits ?
And with the BB vs oil journal debate. The more boost you use, the more a BB can be a better option especially if there is a large disparity between boost and pre turbine pressure, as that is what creates the thrust loads within the turbo.
If both are equal then loads are minimal and the BB's handle thrust loads far better.
WPC are showing the coatings, giving a strange demo of how they can work....but are they giving real world applications and measured benefits ?
01-23-2016, 06:52 AM
#14
9 Second Club
01-23-2016, 05:14 PM
#15
Not to expensive to find out. I plan on ordering some $190 "throw away" Gt45 turbos for my next project. I'll have some stuff treated just for kicks. Not like I'll be able to tell if it does anything... but it will give me warm fuzzy inside thinking it does.