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About Cats and Forced Induction

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Old 05-22-2006, 04:48 PM
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Since I've been gone a minute ... are there any cats that can live up to the extra rich exhaust we see on FI applications? Will free-flowing cats like Random Technology handle this over at least a few years? Or are they ALL doomed to near-immediate failure with FI?
Old 05-22-2006, 06:11 PM
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FWIW, I ran the stock cats on my STSed truck for over a year with the turbo running 7 PSI daily. Put probably around 20,000 miles on it and when I took them off, they still looked brand new.
Old 05-22-2006, 06:18 PM
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I had the Random cats on. When I inspected them the front side material was just eroding away. So I took them off and put replacement pipes in and saved them for emissions tests.
Old 05-23-2006, 12:34 PM
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Thanks for the input, guys.

I'm running about 12 PSI max.
Old 05-23-2006, 02:29 PM
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I lost an FLP cat and had to buy another one for emission. This happened over 4-5K miles only. So now i save the cats for emissions only.
Old 05-24-2006, 05:17 AM
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Well ... seems like wide range of mixed results, so far...
Old 05-24-2006, 07:19 AM
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It's all in the tune. I ran stock cats at 12 psi for a year...took them off and they looked brand new....doesn't matter if you run a metallic substrate or stock ceramic substrate, if the tune is off it will kill them.
Old 05-24-2006, 07:49 AM
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I killed my R/T cats in a matter of months. (and I mean I destroyed them!) But my tune is on the rich side, and I run race gas. (bad juju for cats)
Old 05-24-2006, 09:49 AM
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If you tune for 11:1 a/f or less they will die soon. Most guys tune rich on the dyno (10:1 or so) and thats just kills any kind of cat if you blast it a lot. Also depends how often you floor it, occasional highway blasts dont hurt as much as full 1/4 mile passes. FWIW I have burned up every cat I ever used with a blower eventually..
Old 05-24-2006, 10:22 AM
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What are Cats?????
Is the a way around not running them at all?
Old 05-24-2006, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by NA$TY-TA
What are Cats?????
Is the a way around not running them at all?
Not running them at the dragstrip or dyno would be the easiest way to make them live longer.

In Illinois I ran the MACs with cats and got away with it for emissions testing. Honestly I cant stand the smell of unleaded pump gas with no cats on an everyday car. Thats why I liked the FLPs, easy to swap them on and off..
Old 05-24-2006, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by kp
Not running them at the dragstrip or dyno would be the easiest way to make them live longer.

In Illinois I ran the MACs with cats and got away with it for emissions testing. Honestly I cant stand the smell of unleaded pump gas with no cats on an everyday car. Thats why I liked the FLPs, easy to swap them on and off..

mmmhmmm.. How I love that smell. As for smelling like gas all day long myself, idk. It's just a new cologne for me..
Old 05-24-2006, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by FormulaFire
mmmhmmm.. How I love that smell. As for smelling like gas all day long myself, idk. It's just a new cologne for me..
I could bathe in C16 but 93 unleaded smells pretty foul to me. After a few weeks your garage smells like it and after a day of cruising with the t-tops off you smell like it too so no need for cologne
Old 05-24-2006, 11:26 AM
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I run about 11.5:1 AFR and my hi-flos stink to hi heaven on the dyno...
when I get my electric cut-outs, they are coming off and waiting for smog day.
Old 05-24-2006, 12:43 PM
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They should market C16 as a new scent for men. . I'm lucky here in SC though. I don't if we even Have emmissions. I know they sure as hell don't do any testing for them.
Old 05-24-2006, 04:15 PM
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how does the rich mixture ruin the cats?
Old 05-24-2006, 04:36 PM
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My stockers looked brand new after 2 years of running behind my 6psi blower, probably 50K miles or so. I was on the original Magnuson tune, but never had the ability to measure my AFR's so I dunno where they were...
Old 05-25-2006, 02:53 PM
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Some info on all the things that can go wrong with Cats:

Catalyst poisoning

Catalytic converters become ineffective in the presence of lead due to catalyst poisoning, and the introduction of catalytic converters triggered the end of leaded gasoline. Catalyst poisoning occurs when a substance in the engine exhaust coats the surface of the catalyst, preventing further exhaust access to the catalytic materials.

Poisoning can sometimes be reversed by running the engine under a very heavy load for an extended period of time to raise exhaust gas temperature, which may cause liquefaction or sublimation of the catalyst poison. Common catalyst poisons are lead, sulfur, zinc, manganese, silicone, and phosphorus; Zn, P, and S originate from lubricant antiwear additives such as ZDDP; sulfur and manganese primarily originate from fuel impurities or additives, respectively.

Silicone poisoning is usually the result of engine damage, such as a faulty cylinder head gasket or cracked casting, admitting silicate-containing coolant into the combustion chamber. Removal of sulfur from a catalyst surface by running heated exhaust gasses over the catalyst surface is often successful, however removal of lead deposits is often not possible (the lead becomes vaporized in the combustion chamber of a gasoline 4 stroke engine under the ambient temperature and pressure after charge air ignition, and condenses on the cooler catalytic converter core surface.

In particularly bad cases of catalyst poisoning by lead, the converter can actually become completely plugged with lead residue). Theoretically, catalyst poisoning could also occur if the charge air was contaminated by a catalyst poison, however catalyst poisons are all substances that are solid at the internal temperature of the catalytic converter, and thus precipitate out of the air.

Any condition that increases the concentration of CO or HC reaching the catalyst can cause it to overheat and melt down, restricting the exhaust flow, rendering the converter useless for emission control purposes, and creating an undercar fire hazard. Some such conditions are oil-burning engines, overly rich fuel mixtures, and misfires.
Old 05-25-2006, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by thunder550
My stockers looked brand new after 2 years of running behind my 6psi blower, probably 50K miles or so. I was on the original Magnuson tune, but never had the ability to measure my AFR's so I dunno where they were...
Again, low boost blower setups normally don't require as much richness, so guys running 5 to 8 or 9 PSI may not have this problem. But, guys who run lin the low 11.x range of AFR seem to have this issue. I was just wondering if any Cats had come out the last couple years that handled this issue better.

Thanks!

onfire, I'd love to hear some of your tuning strategy to overcome this issue. Do you keep your AFR higher than the rest of us?
Old 05-25-2006, 08:58 PM
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Zero tricks to my tune. My afr is 14.6 : 1 at all cruising/part throttle conditions...no magic there...just some time spent with a wideband to get the commanded af where you want it....this keeps the cats from igniting a rich part throttle condition....at wot on the street it's around 11.8 to 12.1 to 1...no magic there either....rich part throttle is what kills cats IMHO.


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