About Cats and Forced Induction
#1
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About Cats and Forced Induction
Since I've been gone a minute ... are there any cats that can live up to the extra rich exhaust we see on FI applications? Will free-flowing cats like Random Technology handle this over at least a few years? Or are they ALL doomed to near-immediate failure with FI?
#3
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I had the Random cats on. When I inspected them the front side material was just eroding away. So I took them off and put replacement pipes in and saved them for emissions tests.
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It's all in the tune. I ran stock cats at 12 psi for a year...took them off and they looked brand new....doesn't matter if you run a metallic substrate or stock ceramic substrate, if the tune is off it will kill them.
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#9
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If you tune for 11:1 a/f or less they will die soon. Most guys tune rich on the dyno (10:1 or so) and thats just kills any kind of cat if you blast it a lot. Also depends how often you floor it, occasional highway blasts dont hurt as much as full 1/4 mile passes. FWIW I have burned up every cat I ever used with a blower eventually..
#11
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Originally Posted by NA$TY-TA
What are Cats?????
Is the a way around not running them at all?
Is the a way around not running them at all?
In Illinois I ran the MACs with cats and got away with it for emissions testing. Honestly I cant stand the smell of unleaded pump gas with no cats on an everyday car. Thats why I liked the FLPs, easy to swap them on and off..
#12
Originally Posted by kp
Not running them at the dragstrip or dyno would be the easiest way to make them live longer.
In Illinois I ran the MACs with cats and got away with it for emissions testing. Honestly I cant stand the smell of unleaded pump gas with no cats on an everyday car. Thats why I liked the FLPs, easy to swap them on and off..
In Illinois I ran the MACs with cats and got away with it for emissions testing. Honestly I cant stand the smell of unleaded pump gas with no cats on an everyday car. Thats why I liked the FLPs, easy to swap them on and off..
mmmhmmm.. How I love that smell. As for smelling like gas all day long myself, idk. It's just a new cologne for me..
#13
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Originally Posted by FormulaFire
mmmhmmm.. How I love that smell. As for smelling like gas all day long myself, idk. It's just a new cologne for me..
#15
They should market C16 as a new scent for men. . I'm lucky here in SC though. I don't if we even Have emmissions. I know they sure as hell don't do any testing for them.
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My stockers looked brand new after 2 years of running behind my 6psi blower, probably 50K miles or so. I was on the original Magnuson tune, but never had the ability to measure my AFR's so I dunno where they were...
#18
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Some info on all the things that can go wrong with Cats:
Catalyst poisoning
Catalytic converters become ineffective in the presence of lead due to catalyst poisoning, and the introduction of catalytic converters triggered the end of leaded gasoline. Catalyst poisoning occurs when a substance in the engine exhaust coats the surface of the catalyst, preventing further exhaust access to the catalytic materials.
Poisoning can sometimes be reversed by running the engine under a very heavy load for an extended period of time to raise exhaust gas temperature, which may cause liquefaction or sublimation of the catalyst poison. Common catalyst poisons are lead, sulfur, zinc, manganese, silicone, and phosphorus; Zn, P, and S originate from lubricant antiwear additives such as ZDDP; sulfur and manganese primarily originate from fuel impurities or additives, respectively.
Silicone poisoning is usually the result of engine damage, such as a faulty cylinder head gasket or cracked casting, admitting silicate-containing coolant into the combustion chamber. Removal of sulfur from a catalyst surface by running heated exhaust gasses over the catalyst surface is often successful, however removal of lead deposits is often not possible (the lead becomes vaporized in the combustion chamber of a gasoline 4 stroke engine under the ambient temperature and pressure after charge air ignition, and condenses on the cooler catalytic converter core surface.
In particularly bad cases of catalyst poisoning by lead, the converter can actually become completely plugged with lead residue). Theoretically, catalyst poisoning could also occur if the charge air was contaminated by a catalyst poison, however catalyst poisons are all substances that are solid at the internal temperature of the catalytic converter, and thus precipitate out of the air.
Any condition that increases the concentration of CO or HC reaching the catalyst can cause it to overheat and melt down, restricting the exhaust flow, rendering the converter useless for emission control purposes, and creating an undercar fire hazard. Some such conditions are oil-burning engines, overly rich fuel mixtures, and misfires.
Catalytic converters become ineffective in the presence of lead due to catalyst poisoning, and the introduction of catalytic converters triggered the end of leaded gasoline. Catalyst poisoning occurs when a substance in the engine exhaust coats the surface of the catalyst, preventing further exhaust access to the catalytic materials.
Poisoning can sometimes be reversed by running the engine under a very heavy load for an extended period of time to raise exhaust gas temperature, which may cause liquefaction or sublimation of the catalyst poison. Common catalyst poisons are lead, sulfur, zinc, manganese, silicone, and phosphorus; Zn, P, and S originate from lubricant antiwear additives such as ZDDP; sulfur and manganese primarily originate from fuel impurities or additives, respectively.
Silicone poisoning is usually the result of engine damage, such as a faulty cylinder head gasket or cracked casting, admitting silicate-containing coolant into the combustion chamber. Removal of sulfur from a catalyst surface by running heated exhaust gasses over the catalyst surface is often successful, however removal of lead deposits is often not possible (the lead becomes vaporized in the combustion chamber of a gasoline 4 stroke engine under the ambient temperature and pressure after charge air ignition, and condenses on the cooler catalytic converter core surface.
In particularly bad cases of catalyst poisoning by lead, the converter can actually become completely plugged with lead residue). Theoretically, catalyst poisoning could also occur if the charge air was contaminated by a catalyst poison, however catalyst poisons are all substances that are solid at the internal temperature of the catalytic converter, and thus precipitate out of the air.
Any condition that increases the concentration of CO or HC reaching the catalyst can cause it to overheat and melt down, restricting the exhaust flow, rendering the converter useless for emission control purposes, and creating an undercar fire hazard. Some such conditions are oil-burning engines, overly rich fuel mixtures, and misfires.
#19
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Originally Posted by thunder550
My stockers looked brand new after 2 years of running behind my 6psi blower, probably 50K miles or so. I was on the original Magnuson tune, but never had the ability to measure my AFR's so I dunno where they were...
Thanks!
onfire, I'd love to hear some of your tuning strategy to overcome this issue. Do you keep your AFR higher than the rest of us?
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Zero tricks to my tune. My afr is 14.6 : 1 at all cruising/part throttle conditions...no magic there...just some time spent with a wideband to get the commanded af where you want it....this keeps the cats from igniting a rich part throttle condition....at wot on the street it's around 11.8 to 12.1 to 1...no magic there either....rich part throttle is what kills cats IMHO.