D1SC with stock air filter location and lid?
08-07-2006, 09:02 AM
#1
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D1SC with stock air filter location and lid? Has anyone kept the stock location for the air filter? I thought I remembered seeing a pic of a supercharger with the piping coming back up to the stock air lid location. I would like to keep mine like this because it seems like it's the best spot to get fresh cold air with my WS6 and the bgra. I know it would have to use some custom piping but I think it would be worth the extra work. Has anyone done it or seen it? I will also be using a fmic, so not sure how much difference that would make. Some pics would be great or some of how the pipe is routed would be even better.
08-07-2006, 09:33 AM
#3
In the "stock" Procharger application they use 2 intercoolers and have a plenum where the stock airlid was for those two intercoolers to join and have one tube coming out to the TB. If you had a FMIC, you might be able to rig something up to use the stock lid, but I highly doubt it and the additonal piping would negate any gains from the cold air. On the Procharger, the air intake will be down low, and their setup is better than what you can rig up with a lid. You want the intake tubing as short as possible, blowers and turbos don't like to suck, they like to blow.
I do believe the Vortech kit can make use of the factory airlid arrangement, however.
I do believe the Vortech kit can make use of the factory airlid arrangement, however.
08-08-2006, 03:55 PM
#4
Originally Posted by rufretic
Has anyone kept the stock location for the air filter? I thought I remembered seeing a pic of a supercharger with the piping coming back up to the stock air lid location. I would like to keep mine like this because it seems like it's the best spot to get fresh cold air with my WS6 and the bgra. I know it would have to use some custom piping but I think it would be worth the extra work. Has anyone done it or seen it? I will also be using a fmic, so not sure how much difference that would make. Some pics would be great or some of how the pipe is routed would be even better.
Yes it can be done, It takes a bit of work. Here are a few shots of my setup.
Woked rather well for me untill I broke a ring gland on #5.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65...uelrail153.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65...uelrail156.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65...uelrail063.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65...install053.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65...install054.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65...uelrail165.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65...install078.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65...install071.jpg
08-08-2006, 04:13 PM
#7
Wow, you must have really wanted to use that stock filter location!
Its nice, I just can't say I understand the idea behind it. You have a ton of inlet piping, running through a hot *** engine bay, and alot of turns in the pipes. It can't be anywhere near as efficient as what ATI gives you in their kit, and even it kinda sucks for high boost applications.
But, like I said, I compliment the engineering and fab work on it.
Its nice, I just can't say I understand the idea behind it. You have a ton of inlet piping, running through a hot *** engine bay, and alot of turns in the pipes. It can't be anywhere near as efficient as what ATI gives you in their kit, and even it kinda sucks for high boost applications.
But, like I said, I compliment the engineering and fab work on it.
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08-08-2006, 04:23 PM
#8
Vortech actually uses the stock airlid... be nice if they would have made an aftermarket style lid with the opening pointing off in the blower's intake direction... it probably would work really good.
But for some reason, alot of people don't like the vortech kit. I think that one of those kits with a good FMIC, or alot bigger air to water unit would probably work great.
If I ever get a 2nd car, one thing I'd like to try would be to get a YSI setup, run a cog belt for it so there's no slipping or any of that nonsense, make an airbox that mounts in teh stock location and run it around to the intake side of the blower, and get a large air to water intercooler, and mount it where the battery sits on that side of teh engine bay, and route the intake to an elbow on top of an edlebrock style intake.
I think it would be a very clean looking and effective system, and have the best of all possible worlds... only thing that's stopping me from doing it is $, and the fact that by the time I get done with all the fab work, I could have built a turbo setup that would be all too likly to make even more power then the blower would.
But for some reason, alot of people don't like the vortech kit. I think that one of those kits with a good FMIC, or alot bigger air to water unit would probably work great.
If I ever get a 2nd car, one thing I'd like to try would be to get a YSI setup, run a cog belt for it so there's no slipping or any of that nonsense, make an airbox that mounts in teh stock location and run it around to the intake side of the blower, and get a large air to water intercooler, and mount it where the battery sits on that side of teh engine bay, and route the intake to an elbow on top of an edlebrock style intake.
I think it would be a very clean looking and effective system, and have the best of all possible worlds... only thing that's stopping me from doing it is $, and the fact that by the time I get done with all the fab work, I could have built a turbo setup that would be all too likly to make even more power then the blower would.
08-08-2006, 04:35 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by Jon B.
Everytime I see that girl I want to punch her in the face as hard as I can...
Jon
Jon
As for the supercharger setup, it is very hot! That looks great man. I saved those pics to get some ideas going. I won't be doing it exactly like that because for one, I don't know how the hell I would make that box and two, I will have a fmic but it definetly helps me get some ideas. Do you mind me asking how much rwhp it made? I do see how it might be a little more restrictive but damn, I think the bling factor is worth a few ponys.
08-08-2006, 04:52 PM
#10
Thanks TS6
Yes I did want to keep the stock location and fresh clean air off of the hood, vs hot dirty exhaust air from down low. As for piping there is not much more than the stock setup. Only extra piping was for the intake side.
Rufertic
After install and a good dyno tunes was able to make the 540Hp 533Tq with a good a
8to9 psi.
Stock motor with the exception of the 1.85 rockers and beefed up valve train.
To boot this was with a 5180' elevation.
Yes I did want to keep the stock location and fresh clean air off of the hood, vs hot dirty exhaust air from down low. As for piping there is not much more than the stock setup. Only extra piping was for the intake side.
Rufertic
After install and a good dyno tunes was able to make the 540Hp 533Tq with a good a
8to9 psi.
Stock motor with the exception of the 1.85 rockers and beefed up valve train.
To boot this was with a 5180' elevation.
08-08-2006, 05:15 PM
#11
People need to realize what effect intake piping has on compressors. They are like fuel pumps, the push out, but don't like to suck in. Ever wonder why FI race cars don't have filters or intake pipes, and they try to position the inlet directly in the airstream? It isn't for looks folks.
That setup, although very cool and interesting, has ALOT more piping vs. what ATI uses. My stock ATI setup has maybe 10" of pipe, which is straight aside from the turn into the blower. As far as "clean air", where the filter is located it doesn't get much cleaner than that. Mines down low (no idea how you figure exhaust could make it up there) and in an area where fresh air is readily available and won't heat up the intake tubing.
I'm not knocking your setup, and judging by the cleanliness and shiny-ness (yeah, I made that up) you're probably just as concerned with "show" as well as "go". Thats cool, but in the quest for max power, its inefficient. Thats why all us procharger guys are trying to find an even less restrictive inlet, gains of up to 100 rwhp have been recorded just from removing inlet piping.
I'm only stating this because the thread starter is under the impression that this setup might actually be better, when its actually worse.
That setup, although very cool and interesting, has ALOT more piping vs. what ATI uses. My stock ATI setup has maybe 10" of pipe, which is straight aside from the turn into the blower. As far as "clean air", where the filter is located it doesn't get much cleaner than that. Mines down low (no idea how you figure exhaust could make it up there) and in an area where fresh air is readily available and won't heat up the intake tubing.
I'm not knocking your setup, and judging by the cleanliness and shiny-ness (yeah, I made that up) you're probably just as concerned with "show" as well as "go". Thats cool, but in the quest for max power, its inefficient. Thats why all us procharger guys are trying to find an even less restrictive inlet, gains of up to 100 rwhp have been recorded just from removing inlet piping.
I'm only stating this because the thread starter is under the impression that this setup might actually be better, when its actually worse.
08-08-2006, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TS6
People need to realize what effect intake piping has on compressors. They are like fuel pumps, the push out, but don't like to suck in. Ever wonder why FI race cars don't have filters or intake pipes, and they try to position the inlet directly in the airstream? It isn't for looks folks.
That setup, although very cool and interesting, has ALOT more piping vs. what ATI uses. My stock ATI setup has maybe 10" of pipe, which is straight aside from the turn into the blower. As far as "clean air", where the filter is located it doesn't get much cleaner than that. Mines down low (no idea how you figure exhaust could make it up there) and in an area where fresh air is readily available and won't heat up the intake tubing.
I'm not knocking your setup, and judging by the cleanliness and shiny-ness (yeah, I made that up) you're probably just as concerned with "show" as well as "go". Thats cool, but in the quest for max power, its inefficient. Thats why all us procharger guys are trying to find an even less restrictive inlet, gains of up to 100 rwhp have been recorded just from removing inlet piping.
I'm only stating this because the thread starter is under the impression that this setup might actually be better, when its actually worse.
That setup, although very cool and interesting, has ALOT more piping vs. what ATI uses. My stock ATI setup has maybe 10" of pipe, which is straight aside from the turn into the blower. As far as "clean air", where the filter is located it doesn't get much cleaner than that. Mines down low (no idea how you figure exhaust could make it up there) and in an area where fresh air is readily available and won't heat up the intake tubing.
I'm not knocking your setup, and judging by the cleanliness and shiny-ness (yeah, I made that up) you're probably just as concerned with "show" as well as "go". Thats cool, but in the quest for max power, its inefficient. Thats why all us procharger guys are trying to find an even less restrictive inlet, gains of up to 100 rwhp have been recorded just from removing inlet piping.
I'm only stating this because the thread starter is under the impression that this setup might actually be better, when its actually worse.
I understand superchargers don't like to suck but what about the extra pressure the ram air opening combined with the bgra are offering? I know it's not a true ram air set-up but I find it hard to believe that air is not being pushed in while moving at any speed and even more so at 100+ mph. The dyno won't show it but I'm not a dyno queen, I'm after ET and mph. Maybe I should be the test dumby and set it up like I want, do a few runs and then lose the lid and extra piping and throw on what the system comes with and do a few more runs for comparison. Use what ever set-up gets the better ETs. That way I would know I'm getting the most out of my set-up.
BOSS APPROVED!
08-08-2006, 10:08 PM
#15
Your "Ram Air" won't keep up with how much air the blower needs. Think about it, where does the BGRA get its air? Under the front of the car. Why route it through multiple elbows and long lengths of pipe when you can just let it draw in right there? Its like driving around the block to check your mail, just go straight to the mailbox!
08-08-2006, 10:44 PM
#16
Just put this on down in the stock location and call it a night. http://www.knfilters.com/search/prod...x?Prod=RF-1004
I have been running this filter for a few months with no issues. The kids love it. Remember I do this for the kids.
I have been running this filter for a few months with no issues. The kids love it. Remember I do this for the kids.
08-09-2006, 04:39 AM
#17
Originally Posted by TWS
Note my '01 SS.
yeah.. that's what I was talking about. I bet that made a huge difference in the power the kit made over the stock lid too yes?
Vortech should have included that with thier kit IMO.
Looks like the charge pipe could easily run over to the battery area where a huige *** air to water could be placed too easy enough. Be nice to see someone use the ysi head unit and try that... you've already got 1/2 my idea there, ya gotta get a big *** air to water to try that with now and a YSI head unit if it will bolt up to that bracket setup.
08-09-2006, 06:21 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by TS6
Your "Ram Air" won't keep up with how much air the blower needs. Think about it, where does the BGRA get its air? Under the front of the car. Why route it through multiple elbows and long lengths of pipe when you can just let it draw in right there? Its like driving around the block to check your mail, just go straight to the mailbox!
08-09-2006, 08:25 AM
#19
Originally Posted by JL ws-6
yeah.. that's what I was talking about. I bet that made a huge difference in the power the kit made over the stock lid too yes?
Vortech should have included that with thier kit IMO.
Vortech should have included that with thier kit IMO.
It was a 17 RWHP gain if I remember correctly. (Did the back to back dyno testing in May of 2003, so I'd have to pull out the charts to be 100% sure.)
08-09-2006, 11:15 AM
#20
That's a damn good gain IMO.. Now, if you were running say a 400 CI motor and a YSI head unit, and a BIG air to water intercooler, I'm gonna guess that it would be more like a 25 + HP gain... be nice if that style lid could be made with a 4 inch diaoutlet so big dia. inlet charge piping to teh blower could be used as well.
There's potential here, and I think that a BGRA setup along with that lid would be able to keep up with the demand no problem, pretty buch be a 4 inch pipe attached to teh blower inlet if done right, I see no restrction there.
There's potential here, and I think that a BGRA setup along with that lid would be able to keep up with the demand no problem, pretty buch be a 4 inch pipe attached to teh blower inlet if done right, I see no restrction there.