Aeromotive Custom Fuel System Pics
08-30-2005, 08:45 AM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 2,984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aeromotive Custom Fuel System Pics This is on a custom STS kit that we have done. Still stock bottom end, keeping everything conservative made 540rwhp 11.8:1 through an A4.
08-30-2005, 11:47 AM
#3
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TTPMatt
This is on a custom STS kit that we have done. Still stock bottom end, keeping everything conservative made 540rwhp 11.8:1 through an A4.
If thats the case I give it 45 minutes of driving and it vapor locks!
08-30-2005, 12:30 PM
#4
Banned
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 2,984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is that pump the only pump and is it mounted on the drivers side by the rear seat or pass side???? Your not feeding it with a sump and that pump my work on intial start up and dyno testing etc...but continous working as in daily driving that bitch will LOCK up. Holy zipties!
If thats the case I give it 45 minutes of driving and it vapor locks!
If thats the case I give it 45 minutes of driving and it vapor locks!
And yes, there are a lot of zipties, once again back to the notion that we don't do things half *** like most shops. Yes zipties aren't the nicest looking but should we have just let the wires hang down and hope they dont get caught on anything, lol.
Ask before you speak?
08-30-2005, 02:02 PM
#5
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TTPMatt
It is fed by a sump There are no pictures of the stock gas tank. It is fed with a #12 line from the bottom of the stock gas tank.
And yes, there are a lot of zipties, once again back to the notion that we don't do things half *** like most shops. Yes zipties aren't the nicest looking but should we have just let the wires hang down and hope they dont get caught on anything, lol.
Ask before you speak?
And yes, there are a lot of zipties, once again back to the notion that we don't do things half *** like most shops. Yes zipties aren't the nicest looking but should we have just let the wires hang down and hope they dont get caught on anything, lol.
Ask before you speak?
Please confirm the heat on the pump after driving the car on the freeway or in traffic...Im curious to know when it vapor locks Instead of Zip ties they do make nice hose clamps that can be riveted to the car...As far as under hood goes, the lines could have been routed underneath the TB and the Regulator mounted on the pass side head out of the way and it would be a little cleaner install...Im still not gettign where you said it wasnt half ***?
Last edited by V6 Bird; 08-30-2005 at 02:09 PM.
08-30-2005, 07:26 PM
#6
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: old tappan n.j.
Posts: 669
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fuel injection is a system for squirting fuel into the cylinders of gasoline and diesel engines. When used on gasoline engines, it replaces the carburetor, a device that mixes air and fuel.
On most gasoline engines that use fuel injection, a pump forces fuel under high pressure to a nozzle located at each cylinder. The nozzles then spray the fuel into an intake port (chamber) near each cylinder. There the fuel partially mixes with air before a valve opens to admit the mixture into the cylinder. The fuel may be injected into the intake port in a continuous stream or periodically. This system is called multiport fuel injection or direct-port fuel injection.
Some automotive gasoline engines use a system called single point or throttle body fuel injection. This system has only one or two fuel injection nozzles. Each nozzle delivers fuel to several cylinders.
Fuel injection overcomes disadvantages of carburetors. In a carburetor, heat from the engine vaporizes the gasoline fuel to help it burn properly. The expansion of the heated air reduces the amount of air going to the cylinders. The cylinders can get differing amounts of the fuel vapor. The amount varies according to the design of the manifold (pipe connecting the carburetor and cylinders) and the distance of a cylinder from the carburetor. Poor distribution of the fuel-air mixture can prevent some of the fuel from burning, resulting in lower fuel economy and higher exhaust emissions. The engine also may flood or ice up during the winter, or develop vapor lock during the summer (see Vapor lock).
Fuel injection includes both an air-flow system and a fuel system. Electronic or mechanical controls link the two systems to maintain the proper ratio of fuel to air. The nozzles help break the fuel into a fine spray so that it mixes well with the air and therefore burns almost completely. Precise control of the fuel-air mixture also helps control exhaust emissions and enables cold engines to start quickly and run smoothly.
All diesel engines use fuel injection. In most of these engines, the nozzles spray the fuel directly into the cylinders. A diesel pump compresses the fuel to a much higher pressure than for gasoline fuel injection. In some cases, a single pump is located centrally on the engine. In other cases, each of the engine's cylinders has a pump.
"Vapor lock" occurs in a gasoline engine when some of the gasoline boils in the fuel-supply system. Excessive heating of the engine may cause boiling, or vaporization, of the fuel. This reduces the amount of fuel pumped to the engine, because vapor takes up more space than liquid. The engine then runs erratically or stops until the vaporized gasoline cools and turns to liquid. Vapor locks occur most often during long, steep climbs on hot days, or when slowing suddenly after a hard drive.
Now with all this said how am i getting vaporlock? On a system not near any exhaust and is a system with a return so its always getting cool fuel where is the so called "Vaporlock" comming from the pump is about 10 inches lower then the sump in the tank and there is about 3 feet of line also it was the customer that did not want the pump on the rear bumper in view unlike my own fuel system pump is on bumper "89 tta" customer wanted pump hidden and this was most viable place being there is a sts turbo behind the rear end and a sts oil pump in front of the rear end this was the only place for it .
but thanks for your advice and point taken
george
On most gasoline engines that use fuel injection, a pump forces fuel under high pressure to a nozzle located at each cylinder. The nozzles then spray the fuel into an intake port (chamber) near each cylinder. There the fuel partially mixes with air before a valve opens to admit the mixture into the cylinder. The fuel may be injected into the intake port in a continuous stream or periodically. This system is called multiport fuel injection or direct-port fuel injection.
Some automotive gasoline engines use a system called single point or throttle body fuel injection. This system has only one or two fuel injection nozzles. Each nozzle delivers fuel to several cylinders.
Fuel injection overcomes disadvantages of carburetors. In a carburetor, heat from the engine vaporizes the gasoline fuel to help it burn properly. The expansion of the heated air reduces the amount of air going to the cylinders. The cylinders can get differing amounts of the fuel vapor. The amount varies according to the design of the manifold (pipe connecting the carburetor and cylinders) and the distance of a cylinder from the carburetor. Poor distribution of the fuel-air mixture can prevent some of the fuel from burning, resulting in lower fuel economy and higher exhaust emissions. The engine also may flood or ice up during the winter, or develop vapor lock during the summer (see Vapor lock).
Fuel injection includes both an air-flow system and a fuel system. Electronic or mechanical controls link the two systems to maintain the proper ratio of fuel to air. The nozzles help break the fuel into a fine spray so that it mixes well with the air and therefore burns almost completely. Precise control of the fuel-air mixture also helps control exhaust emissions and enables cold engines to start quickly and run smoothly.
All diesel engines use fuel injection. In most of these engines, the nozzles spray the fuel directly into the cylinders. A diesel pump compresses the fuel to a much higher pressure than for gasoline fuel injection. In some cases, a single pump is located centrally on the engine. In other cases, each of the engine's cylinders has a pump.
"Vapor lock" occurs in a gasoline engine when some of the gasoline boils in the fuel-supply system. Excessive heating of the engine may cause boiling, or vaporization, of the fuel. This reduces the amount of fuel pumped to the engine, because vapor takes up more space than liquid. The engine then runs erratically or stops until the vaporized gasoline cools and turns to liquid. Vapor locks occur most often during long, steep climbs on hot days, or when slowing suddenly after a hard drive.
Now with all this said how am i getting vaporlock? On a system not near any exhaust and is a system with a return so its always getting cool fuel where is the so called "Vaporlock" comming from the pump is about 10 inches lower then the sump in the tank and there is about 3 feet of line also it was the customer that did not want the pump on the rear bumper in view unlike my own fuel system pump is on bumper "89 tta" customer wanted pump hidden and this was most viable place being there is a sts turbo behind the rear end and a sts oil pump in front of the rear end this was the only place for it .
but thanks for your advice and point taken
george
08-30-2005, 10:44 PM
#7
Launching!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ.
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, I see a possible problem. If you're supplying the fuel to the back of the rails you need the regulator before it gets to the rail. You need to regulate pressure to the fuel rails not after. Only way the location the reg is mounted would work is if you had the supply Yed in the front after the reg and the returns going out the back. Right now you're only regulating one fuel rails pressure from what I can see.
Trending Topics
08-31-2005, 06:36 AM
#8
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: baltimore, MD
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The aeromotive pumps move allot of fuel and if you don't supply enough fuel to them they will cavitate and boil the fuel at the pump inlet. I run one on my ultima and when I talked to aeromotive they told me to run a minimum of -10 lines to the pump. They also said the pumps are not designed to pull fuel to them and should always be gravity feed. They highly recommend there fuel controller to slow the pump down and keep everything cool.
Being a mid engine car the engine bay gets very hot yet I got a 1000+ miles on my pump and haven't had any problems.
In a return style fuel system the regulator goes after the rails.
Mark
Being a mid engine car the engine bay gets very hot yet I got a 1000+ miles on my pump and haven't had any problems.
In a return style fuel system the regulator goes after the rails.
Mark
08-31-2005, 02:09 PM
#9
Banned
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 2,984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by METAL MAN
Ok, I see a possible problem. If you're supplying the fuel to the back of the rails you need the regulator before it gets to the rail. You need to regulate pressure to the fuel rails not after. Only way the location the reg is mounted would work is if you had the supply Yed in the front after the reg and the returns going out the back. Right now you're only regulating one fuel rails pressure from what I can see.
george
08-31-2005, 02:11 PM
#10
Banned
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 2,984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mkoch1
The aeromotive pumps move allot of fuel and if you don't supply enough fuel to them they will cavitate and boil the fuel at the pump inlet. I run one on my ultima and when I talked to aeromotive they told me to run a minimum of -10 lines to the pump. They also said the pumps are not designed to pull fuel to them and should always be gravity feed. They highly recommend there fuel controller to slow the pump down and keep everything cool.
Being a mid engine car the engine bay gets very hot yet I got a 1000+ miles on my pump and haven't had any problems.
In a return style fuel system the regulator goes after the rails.
Mark
Being a mid engine car the engine bay gets very hot yet I got a 1000+ miles on my pump and haven't had any problems.
In a return style fuel system the regulator goes after the rails.
Mark
Thanks for the advice
George
09-01-2005, 07:33 AM
#12
Banned
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 2,984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, I see a possible problem. If you're supplying the fuel to the back of the rails you need the regulator before it gets to the rail. You need to regulate pressure to the fuel rails not after. Only way the location the reg is mounted would work is if you had the supply Yed in the front after the reg and the returns going out the back. Right now you're only regulating one fuel rails pressure from what I can see.
I love to see how everyone wants to pick apart this fuel system, is it because no one has had the innovation to take a kit (Besides a bolt-in kit) and do the custom work?
Regarding the pump placement, yes we would have prefered a different location but the customer insisted on hiding the pump. It is lower than the sump, just a bit further than we would have prefered but it is fed by #12 line.
09-01-2005, 08:37 AM
#13
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2002nhraformula
Fuel injection is a system for squirting fuel into the cylinders of gasoline and diesel engines. When used on gasoline engines, it replaces the carburetor, a device that mixes air and fuel.
On most gasoline engines that use fuel injection, a pump forces fuel under high pressure to a nozzle located at each cylinder. The nozzles then spray the fuel into an intake port (chamber) near each cylinder. There the fuel partially mixes with air before a valve opens to admit the mixture into the cylinder. The fuel may be injected into the intake port in a continuous stream or periodically. This system is called multiport fuel injection or direct-port fuel injection.
Some automotive gasoline engines use a system called single point or throttle body fuel injection. This system has only one or two fuel injection nozzles. Each nozzle delivers fuel to several cylinders.
Fuel injection overcomes disadvantages of carburetors. In a carburetor, heat from the engine vaporizes the gasoline fuel to help it burn properly. The expansion of the heated air reduces the amount of air going to the cylinders. The cylinders can get differing amounts of the fuel vapor. The amount varies according to the design of the manifold (pipe connecting the carburetor and cylinders) and the distance of a cylinder from the carburetor. Poor distribution of the fuel-air mixture can prevent some of the fuel from burning, resulting in lower fuel economy and higher exhaust emissions. The engine also may flood or ice up during the winter, or develop vapor lock during the summer (see Vapor lock).
Fuel injection includes both an air-flow system and a fuel system. Electronic or mechanical controls link the two systems to maintain the proper ratio of fuel to air. The nozzles help break the fuel into a fine spray so that it mixes well with the air and therefore burns almost completely. Precise control of the fuel-air mixture also helps control exhaust emissions and enables cold engines to start quickly and run smoothly.
All diesel engines use fuel injection. In most of these engines, the nozzles spray the fuel directly into the cylinders. A diesel pump compresses the fuel to a much higher pressure than for gasoline fuel injection. In some cases, a single pump is located centrally on the engine. In other cases, each of the engine's cylinders has a pump.
"Vapor lock" occurs in a gasoline engine when some of the gasoline boils in the fuel-supply system. Excessive heating of the engine may cause boiling, or vaporization, of the fuel. This reduces the amount of fuel pumped to the engine, because vapor takes up more space than liquid. The engine then runs erratically or stops until the vaporized gasoline cools and turns to liquid. Vapor locks occur most often during long, steep climbs on hot days, or when slowing suddenly after a hard drive.
Now with all this said how am i getting vaporlock? On a system not near any exhaust and is a system with a return so its always getting cool fuel where is the so called "Vaporlock" comming from the pump is about 10 inches lower then the sump in the tank and there is about 3 feet of line also it was the customer that did not want the pump on the rear bumper in view unlike my own fuel system pump is on bumper "89 tta" customer wanted pump hidden and this was most viable place being there is a sts turbo behind the rear end and a sts oil pump in front of the rear end this was the only place for it .
but thanks for your advice and point taken
george
On most gasoline engines that use fuel injection, a pump forces fuel under high pressure to a nozzle located at each cylinder. The nozzles then spray the fuel into an intake port (chamber) near each cylinder. There the fuel partially mixes with air before a valve opens to admit the mixture into the cylinder. The fuel may be injected into the intake port in a continuous stream or periodically. This system is called multiport fuel injection or direct-port fuel injection.
Some automotive gasoline engines use a system called single point or throttle body fuel injection. This system has only one or two fuel injection nozzles. Each nozzle delivers fuel to several cylinders.
Fuel injection overcomes disadvantages of carburetors. In a carburetor, heat from the engine vaporizes the gasoline fuel to help it burn properly. The expansion of the heated air reduces the amount of air going to the cylinders. The cylinders can get differing amounts of the fuel vapor. The amount varies according to the design of the manifold (pipe connecting the carburetor and cylinders) and the distance of a cylinder from the carburetor. Poor distribution of the fuel-air mixture can prevent some of the fuel from burning, resulting in lower fuel economy and higher exhaust emissions. The engine also may flood or ice up during the winter, or develop vapor lock during the summer (see Vapor lock).
Fuel injection includes both an air-flow system and a fuel system. Electronic or mechanical controls link the two systems to maintain the proper ratio of fuel to air. The nozzles help break the fuel into a fine spray so that it mixes well with the air and therefore burns almost completely. Precise control of the fuel-air mixture also helps control exhaust emissions and enables cold engines to start quickly and run smoothly.
All diesel engines use fuel injection. In most of these engines, the nozzles spray the fuel directly into the cylinders. A diesel pump compresses the fuel to a much higher pressure than for gasoline fuel injection. In some cases, a single pump is located centrally on the engine. In other cases, each of the engine's cylinders has a pump.
"Vapor lock" occurs in a gasoline engine when some of the gasoline boils in the fuel-supply system. Excessive heating of the engine may cause boiling, or vaporization, of the fuel. This reduces the amount of fuel pumped to the engine, because vapor takes up more space than liquid. The engine then runs erratically or stops until the vaporized gasoline cools and turns to liquid. Vapor locks occur most often during long, steep climbs on hot days, or when slowing suddenly after a hard drive.
Now with all this said how am i getting vaporlock? On a system not near any exhaust and is a system with a return so its always getting cool fuel where is the so called "Vaporlock" comming from the pump is about 10 inches lower then the sump in the tank and there is about 3 feet of line also it was the customer that did not want the pump on the rear bumper in view unlike my own fuel system pump is on bumper "89 tta" customer wanted pump hidden and this was most viable place being there is a sts turbo behind the rear end and a sts oil pump in front of the rear end this was the only place for it .
but thanks for your advice and point taken
george
The fuel may not be any near heat, but the pump itself GENERATES HEAT and is cooled by the fuel itself. WHen its working double duty to PULL and PUSH the fuel it will in turn HEAT the fuel thus causing vapor lock. Thanks for playing. have a great locked up day. 
09-01-2005, 08:46 AM
#14
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TTPMatt
I love to see how everyone wants to pick apart this fuel system, is it because no one has had the innovation to take a kit (Besides a bolt-in kit) and do the custom work?
Regarding the pump placement, yes we would have prefered a different location but the customer insisted on hiding the pump. It is lower than the sump, just a bit further than we would have prefered but it is fed by #12 line.
My system works like this.....
Sumped 98 tank with 1 -10an line about 15" to the filter/pump installed on the drivers side frame rail tucked up out of the way. From there it runs -10an to the front on the drivers side into a Y-Block under the cowling and splits to 2 -8an lines to feed the back of the rails( The big FORD rails..Not some LS1 specific **** either...I even adapted some LS1 Speed Inc mounting blocks to them...WOW I must be innovated then right?). My Regulator is mounted on the pass side head behind the tensioner. I feed the drivers rail, ran the line under the TB/Intake neck into the Regulator.....I took the pass side and went into the other side of the regulator. My return comes out the bottom and goes to the frame rail and runs to the back. I then returned it to the front of the tank spraying straight into the sump and my tank is vented on top in the basket as a -6an, the same as my return. I DONT HAVE VOLTAGE REGULATOR and I've never had one issue with this setup getting too hot or locking up. I used alot of Harlans ideas and came up with my own setup that is clean and to the point. If you feed the pump with the current gauge wiring, use a nice relay, and ground it with the correct gauage wiring, you wont have any voltage drop and there is no need for a voltage regulator on a system like this.
Last edited by V6 Bird; 09-01-2005 at 08:54 AM.
09-01-2005, 08:47 AM
#15
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TTPMatt
the regulator is in the right place. Pressure in the system is at a constant its not like it will overcome the regulator but thanks for your insite
george
george
Last edited by Ryan K; 09-01-2005 at 01:02 PM.
09-01-2005, 10:53 AM
#18
Banned
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 2,984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
?
I used alot of Harlans ideas and came up with my own setup that is clean and to the point
So, since you are the professional car builder here what times has your car run with the "CORRECT" fuel system? *laugh*
Last edited by Ryan K; 09-01-2005 at 12:55 PM.
09-01-2005, 10:59 AM
#19
Banned
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wayne, NJ
Posts: 2,984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FYI: It is 26" of line from the tank to the pump. Once again, not our preference but he street races and wants the unit to be hidden. Remember we had to deal with a lot of the STS oil pump in the way.
09-01-2005, 11:05 AM
#20
9 Second Club
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New Braunfels ,Tx
Posts: 4,997
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The system looks good. I hear ya on the tie straps. Hell I used a ton of them installing K members. The system looks like it will regulate the pressure evenly. Which is the key! I am doing my system with a dual intank pump setup. Dam plastic tanks I am trying to stay away from the steel hose and using stainless. But that system looks good. Mine will look the same but the routeing will be different since my aftercooler sits too close to the rails on the vortech kit. Thanks for sharing the pics. Just gives people more ideas on ways to run the fuel.
I am trying to stay away from the steel hose and using stainless. But that system looks good. Mine will look the same but the routeing will be different since my aftercooler sits too close to the rails on the vortech kit. Thanks for sharing the pics. Just gives people more ideas on ways to run the fuel.