Need advice: s60 vs 12bolt
07-25-2021, 09:19 PM
#1
Need advice: s60 vs 12bolt So I have a 99 z28 with full suspension, rod end Lca and panhard with BMR full length torque arm and relocation trans mount. Looking to keep my current setup and after some research I think my options are s60 or 12-bolt. I read that the aftermarket TA mount can be trimmed easily for the s60, but will it fit a 12-bolt without any trimming or modification? Hopefully someone running this setup can chime in and school me. As far as application, the car is barely street driven and mostly do leisurely road course events with it.
Also while researching I read the moser 12 whines more than usual and could be from bad casting? That was from a 15 year old thread though, is this still a possible issue?
Thanks
Also while researching I read the moser 12 whines more than usual and could be from bad casting? That was from a 15 year old thread though, is this still a possible issue?
Thanks
07-25-2021, 11:52 PM
#2
The TA mount can easily be trimmed/shaved to work with an S60. I did this on a friends with nothing more than an angle grinder and he has put over 60k miles on the rear end and torque arm without issue.
As for which rear end is better for road racing, I cannot speak too much on that. I would recommend the s60 and I do hear about whine in 12 bolts more than any other rear end.
As for which rear end is better for road racing, I cannot speak too much on that. I would recommend the s60 and I do hear about whine in 12 bolts more than any other rear end.
07-26-2021, 03:19 PM
#4
The TA mount can easily be trimmed/shaved to work with an S60. I did this on a friends with nothing more than an angle grinder and he has put over 60k miles on the rear end and torque arm without issue.
As for which rear end is better for road racing, I cannot speak too much on that. I would recommend the s60 and I do hear about whine in 12 bolts more than any other rear end.
As for which rear end is better for road racing, I cannot speak too much on that. I would recommend the s60 and I do hear about whine in 12 bolts more than any other rear end.
Also are there any vendors that sell the s60 or do I have to order directly from strange?
07-26-2021, 03:29 PM
#5
TECH Addict
For road racing don't underestimate the value of the 9" being a much quicker gear change,,
based on the camaro's I've worked on your could need something near a 3.73 on some
tracks and 4.11 on some tracks, the 9" does require a bit more power to turn.
You don't mention which group you run with,, Depending on group, SCCA and NASA have
very different rules on the classes for Camaro's and Mustangs so validate that too!
Axle swaps are not legal for some classes..
based on the camaro's I've worked on your could need something near a 3.73 on some
tracks and 4.11 on some tracks, the 9" does require a bit more power to turn.
You don't mention which group you run with,, Depending on group, SCCA and NASA have
very different rules on the classes for Camaro's and Mustangs so validate that too!
Axle swaps are not legal for some classes..
07-27-2021, 04:02 AM
#6
For road racing don't underestimate the value of the 9" being a much quicker gear change,,
based on the camaro's I've worked on your could need something near a 3.73 on some
tracks and 4.11 on some tracks, the 9" does require a bit more power to turn.
You don't mention which group you run with,, Depending on group, SCCA and NASA have
very different rules on the classes for Camaro's and Mustangs so validate that too!
Axle swaps are not legal for some classes..
based on the camaro's I've worked on your could need something near a 3.73 on some
tracks and 4.11 on some tracks, the 9" does require a bit more power to turn.
You don't mention which group you run with,, Depending on group, SCCA and NASA have
very different rules on the classes for Camaro's and Mustangs so validate that too!
Axle swaps are not legal for some classes..
As far as SCCA and NASA, I don’t have the money or time to devote running those kinds of events. I’ve looked into it and with all the mods I’ve already done I think I would be in the AIX category and wouldn’t be very competitive with my pretty much stock ls6. Plus I live in California and I don’t think we have those series here anymore, like the Camaro Mustang Challenge. I would have loved to run those groups 10 years ago when they were popular. I stick to local HPDE events and a lot of the roval at Autoclub speedway. When the car is done, tuned and dialed in the farthest I plan on going is to Laguna Seca for a weekend.
07-30-2021, 10:55 AM
#9
We do offer the S60 and of course our built in house fabricated nine inch. There is no doubt that the S60 is the best bang for the buck especially if you have a quality torque arm and crossmember, key word is quality torque arm because if it is the style that slides into a poly mount we do not recommend it as that creates a suspension bind. This is why we use an adjustable pivot link over anything else as it allows for free suspension travel as the rear end moves up and down and the sweeping motion the panhard creates.
Now to the fabricated nine inch we offer and its benefits. A nine inch has many advantages over anything else especially ours that can be built however you want. The nine inch center chunk has a ton of advantages from ease of gear changes, more support for the pinion, stronger differentials, more gear choices, lighter, stronger, and so much more. Another advantage to our fabricated housing that other housings are missing is the fact it bolts back in the same way a stock 10-bolt would. You do not have to use zip ties and create custom brackets to hold your brake line in place and your E-brake cable.
Some other advantages to our fabricated nine inch packages is you can incorporate our watts link stands onto the housing and not worry about the clamp style coming loose. Our torque arm design also allows for a lower ride height than what is considered a stock style mounting torque arm bracket.
Now do not be confused by the companies that buy everything from Strange or Moser and call it their fabricated housing. They are just trying to trick you with what they are doing.
If you have anymore questions please feel free to ask.
Now to the fabricated nine inch we offer and its benefits. A nine inch has many advantages over anything else especially ours that can be built however you want. The nine inch center chunk has a ton of advantages from ease of gear changes, more support for the pinion, stronger differentials, more gear choices, lighter, stronger, and so much more. Another advantage to our fabricated housing that other housings are missing is the fact it bolts back in the same way a stock 10-bolt would. You do not have to use zip ties and create custom brackets to hold your brake line in place and your E-brake cable.
Some other advantages to our fabricated nine inch packages is you can incorporate our watts link stands onto the housing and not worry about the clamp style coming loose. Our torque arm design also allows for a lower ride height than what is considered a stock style mounting torque arm bracket.
Now do not be confused by the companies that buy everything from Strange or Moser and call it their fabricated housing. They are just trying to trick you with what they are doing.
If you have anymore questions please feel free to ask.
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LilJayV10 (08-03-2021)
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99 Black Bird T/A (09-12-2022)
09-12-2022, 11:05 AM
#14
He means the poly mount that literally everyone uses, not sure why you couldn't piece that puzzle together?. I've heard the same thing too. The best is to use Teflon lines Heim joints but I highly doubt most people even notice any kind of suspension bind
09-13-2022, 10:59 AM
#15
In any case, I tend to agree w/ your last statement. I believe that advice to be BS, because if one were to retain the stock LCAs, PHB, TA, shocks and sway bar bushings, how would changing out the axle (and nothing else, retaining all of the factory geometry and joint hardware of the factory suspension.........driveshaft length aside) all of a sudden cause the suspension to bind when the factory suspension (which would be retained) doesn't bind to begin with? Certainly, Heim joints have much less friction (resistance to motion) than the factory rubber bushings. Same story with lubed poly bushings. But if rubber bushings (including the TA mount to the trans) doesn't bind w/ a 10-bolt axle installed, its not going to bind with a S60 axle installed that has the exact same geometry at the mounting points (LCAs, PHB, etc.). There would be less fore-aft friction of a "slip fit poly mount" TA than with a factory TA w/ a rubber bushing, not more. I'd need to see more evidence of this actually happening to be convinced it is a problem.
09-13-2022, 11:04 AM
#16
Oh, you mean like how the factory TA mounts to the trans. Why not just say "stock type" instead of using a $10 phrase for a $0.50 pair of words.
In any case, I believe that advice to be BS, because if one were to retain the stock LCAs, PHB, TA, shocks and sway bar bushings, how would changing out the axle (and nothing else, retaining all of the factory geometry and joint hardware of the factory suspension.........driveshaft length aside) all of a sudden cause the suspension to bind when the factory suspension (which would be retained) doesn't bind to begin with? Certainly, Heim joints have much less friction (resistance to motion) than the factory rubber bushings. Same story with lubed poly bushings. But if rubber bushings (including the TA mount to the trans) doesn't bind w/ a 10-bolt axle installed, its not going to bind with a S60 axle installed that has the exact same geometry at the mounting points (LCAs, PHB, etc.). There would be less fore-aft friction of a "slip fit poly mount" TA than with a factory TA w/ a rubber bushing, not more. I'd need to see more evidence of this actually happening to be convinced it is a problem.
In any case, I believe that advice to be BS, because if one were to retain the stock LCAs, PHB, TA, shocks and sway bar bushings, how would changing out the axle (and nothing else, retaining all of the factory geometry and joint hardware of the factory suspension.........driveshaft length aside) all of a sudden cause the suspension to bind when the factory suspension (which would be retained) doesn't bind to begin with? Certainly, Heim joints have much less friction (resistance to motion) than the factory rubber bushings. Same story with lubed poly bushings. But if rubber bushings (including the TA mount to the trans) doesn't bind w/ a 10-bolt axle installed, its not going to bind with a S60 axle installed that has the exact same geometry at the mounting points (LCAs, PHB, etc.). There would be less fore-aft friction of a "slip fit poly mount" TA than with a factory TA w/ a rubber bushing, not more. I'd need to see more evidence of this actually happening to be convinced it is a problem.
09-13-2022, 01:43 PM
#17
Why are you getting so defensive? I wasn't attacking you or your choice of words. Need I remind you that it was YOU that threw out the first insult?:
If you can't take the heat of a technical debate, get out of the garage. 
He means the poly mount that literally everyone uses, not sure why you couldn't piece that puzzle together?.
09-13-2022, 04:39 PM
#19
I've got an S60 with a mid-mount UMI TA, a lot of people won't recommend a mid-mount for road course for a few reasons, but I had a UMI full length on the car and went back to the mid mount because I liked it better on my particular setup...... Under hard breaking these cars tend to try and lift the rear with a mid mount (mine did with the 10-bolt), the long is better in this respect but with the extra weight of the S60 it won't unload it like it will a 10-bolt. For anyone who wants to know my stock 10-bolt was 160# and my S60 was 227# in the same state of dress. I will say though, if you go with a mid-mount I wouldn't run one without the 3-point UMI Subframe connectors or something very similar to brace the center part of the car that was never designed to take the kind of loads a torque arm can put through it.
09-19-2022, 12:36 PM
#20
I've got an S60 with a mid-mount UMI TA, a lot of people won't recommend a mid-mount for road course for a few reasons, but I had a UMI full length on the car and went back to the mid mount because I liked it better on my particular setup...... Under hard breaking these cars tend to try and lift the rear with a mid mount (mine did with the 10-bolt), the long is better in this respect but with the extra weight of the S60 it won't unload it like it will a 10-bolt. For anyone who wants to know my stock 10-bolt was 160# and my S60 was 227# in the same state of dress. I will say though, if you go with a mid-mount I wouldn't run one without the 3-point UMI Subframe connectors or something very similar to brace the center part of the car that was never designed to take the kind of loads a torque arm can put through it.
I currently have all UMI suspension including 2 point subframe connectors and mid mounted torque arm. I would prefer to use the UMI long torque arm if it fits properly and doesn't bind.
Regarding shortening the driveshaft length. The S60 requires a shorten driveshaft which is no longer included with the S60 diff so is there a set standard as to shortening the stock driveshaft?