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Old 10-02-2010, 03:30 AM   #1
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Default How to install stock pinion setup with new crush sleeve?

I have a 01 WS6 and just removed the Torsen T2 to install 4 grade 8 bolts to hold posi unit. Its 3rd time now I've had it out to fix a backed out bolt, but 1st time to install grade 8 bolts in place of factory grade 6. My ? is that I noticed my pinion was loose(move it up and down by hand 1/8th inch). The pinion has leaked for a long time so I read on how to replace the seal. I always leave the pinion alone when I've took the Torsen out. I noticed the pinion nut was finger loose a week b4 I had to take the Torsen out after I heard a bolt bust AGAIN, but I tightened the nut as much as possible with my snap-on breaker bar and it was all solid. At the track it burned up my LS7 clutch with just LT headers and street tires as mods when I launched and felt like there was ALOT, I didnt spin which was wierd and I was shifting way too fast and getting low low mph and near stock times. I smelled clutch bad and people told me the clutch was smoking bad on takeoff. 2 days later the torsen bolt backed out and broke and thats where I am at now. After I decided to change my pinion seal b4 I put it all 2gether I pulled the yoke off and the pinion dropped into the housing with stock shim and big bearing still on solid, the crush sleeve moved freeley up and slid right off the pinion and the small bearing/seal stayed in the housing. I got it all out now and took it to a tranny guy I know and he said its all good and the crush sleeve had spun. He got me a new crush sleeve and my pinion seal I need. I asked what to torque it all too and told him I know how to use all rear end setup tools, but that Its just my 2nd time doing it and last time was on a 245hp L98 F body. He said as long as a am keeping the stock shim and bearing on the pinion and using a new crush sleeve I just tighten it back in like it was. My problem is that the nut was backed off already so I dont know where to tighten it too, and also he said something like put pinion in with seal and only the nut to draw the pinion through so bearing and races are together, then tighten 1/4 turn till I can just move it 1/2 to 1 turn by hand, then back nut off, install yoke,nut again then tighten till just enough where I can still only turn pinion 1/2to1 turn and thats it!...Seriously dont I have to put 300-400FT LBs to crush the new sleeve to draw it to the races still even though im using all my same bearing and shim?..and if I can turn the pinion 1/2 turn by hand doesnt that mean I can just keep turning and turning? I AM LOST and honestly I went through automotive maintnence school and can do about anything to any vehicle except for AC and rear ends....I have an AC ASE cert but still cant fix em lol
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Old 10-02-2010, 03:44 AM   #2
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First let me say I have had crush sleeves that my impact crushed fast and some my impact cannot crush. Here's the deal. You tightening that nut loads the pinion bearings. So this is especially crucial. First, take the posi out. We want to isolate these two bearings. We don't want to be turning a posi too if we don't have to. So, with just the pinion installed it will be big bearing>crush sleeve>little bearing facing inward, then install your seal, then install your yoke, then goes the nut with flat washer. When the nut tightens to the yoke the assembly will still be very loose bc the bearings still have a significant gap. As you continue to tighten, they will close in on each other, compressing the crush sleeve, and eventually seating themselves on the races. The problem here is it will happen very quickly. To measure how tight they are you need and inch/pounds torque wrench in a beam style. A clicker will not work. I shoot for 25 inch/pounds with new bearings but would likely shoot for 10 with used bearings. If you are familiar with rear ends you could set-up a used set of bearings by feel. For the novice, I would say no. Find a beam style torque wrench. I bought mine off ebay for about $30 and made a 1/4 to 1/2 adapter to fit my pinion nut socket as most 0-50 inch/pound beam style torque wrenches will be 1/4 drive.
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Old 10-02-2010, 03:49 AM   #3
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These may help

http://www.vernco.com/rearaxle5/index.htm

Click on "Download a copy..." on the Jaws gear page.

http://www.jawsgear.com/tech_kits.php

http://www.greenfries.info/rear_gear.htm
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Old 10-02-2010, 05:32 AM   #4
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Like redss said, tighten the sleeve down with an impact gun. Used bearings 10 inch lbs new bearings 25-30 inch lbs turning force on the pinion nut. Its also a good idea to get a new pinion nut as the used one can loosen up.
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Old 10-03-2010, 04:47 AM   #5
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Like redss said, tighten the sleeve down with an impact gun. Used bearings 10 inch lbs new bearings 25-30 inch lbs turning force on the pinion nut. Its also a good idea to get a new pinion nut as the used one can loosen up.
I only got the new crush sleeve cause when I pulled my yoke off the pinion dropped into the housing. My differential was out of the housing already. The tranny guy I talked to said not to install the old crush sleeve. I was told by a person on this site to just throw it all back in and install new seal, which was why I took the yoke off in the 1st place. Then that tranny guy said get new crush sleeve and nut and just put it back in and crank it down until the bearings are snug in the races and then little by little torque on it more until I cant feel any back and forth or up and down movement and I can turn it freeley by my hand with no carrier in housing, but just to where it will spin 1 turn at most by hand. I get all all, and I dont have an in lbs wrench and I pretty much know what it felt like a year ago when I had the posi out for the first time. I also am a deisel mechanic and I have alot of feel for around 90-150ft lbs with my snap on 2 way, but hell I was told it could take 30lbs or 400ft lbs to crush the sleeve. I know tightening the main nut on the semi's we go 250ft lbs with the square snap on 1/2in drive clickers and it sometimes takes 1 250lb guy holding the socket straight while my 185lb A$$ cranks the wrench. I torqued my pinion to 140ft lbs and it is very close now but hell my wrench dont go any further and I only have 1 1/2ft space from floor to pumpkin in my garage, so I can only get 150ft lbs max with my 2ft breaker bar. The pinion isnt moving up and down but maybe 1/16in and front to back about 1/8in, its getting to where it wont spin totally free, but also it still is spinning too easy. I guess im going to have to find a compressor to use and get it with the impact just till the play is gone and it only moves freeley by hand about 1/2 turn when I spin it?...Also is ur 2000 SS running 12.30s as your current time with all that you have done?...Thats fast but I was wondering if u should be faster than that, cause im in the same boat. I went 13.18@103mph with just lid, muffler. Then had my tranny built and while it was out I installed LT's and ORY,pro 5.0,free mods,LS7 clutch.. and since the headers I lost all my low end and some top end, but seems all trq and hp is from 3k-5k. It launches great @2k-2500rpm but falls on its face then around 3k it starts spinning and would run 13.0's everytime@109-112mph 2.3-4 60ft. I got sticky tires now and just tested them out and I was launching @3k and hooking up but burning the clutch up, and I knew sumthin was up when I ran 3 straight 13.0s @ 108mph all 3 and all 3 were 2.0 60ft, but for taking off and hooking at 1krpm more than ever b4 and getting through 4th I thought i was running low 12's or something because I usually either hold it in 3rd or just shift to 4th @ the 1/4mile mark. Everyone said my car was smoking bad through 1st and I smelled clutch, I knew it was wierd when I was going thru the gears so quick. The day after is when I had another torsen bolt bust off, and found my old crush sleeve was just loose. I know the LS7 clutch wasnt burning, I think the gears were binding and making the clutch slip. I also havnt had a tune and every1 tells me with LT's no AIR, no CATS, 3in y pipe, P/P MAF and T/B I should be around 1 second faster than stock. my mph is 9mph more than my stock 13.18, but I havnt broke 12's except for last year when I had a spec stg 2 clutch and was running 13.0's with the bad 60fts spinning and still pulled 109mph, my buddy let me put his 17x11in ZR1's with 315 ET streets on and I just launched @ 2500 and ran 12.49@112mph, I was happy then. Are you not tuned or is that before you got 215 tps heads I am guessing? I know a lot of us get TSP cams and stuff and break into 11's with good tunes/driving, but if you meant tsp heads also and just 12.30 I musta read sumthing wrong.....The guy that built my tranny guaranteed me 11.99s with stock 3:42's and 7.625 gears if I get it tuned by him....lot easier said than done..
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Old 10-03-2010, 03:27 PM   #6
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First off on the torsen bolts you need to degrease everything and install them with red loctite. Usually they back out and break when they hit the housing, they don't just break. Unless you're over torqing them which sounds like a possibility.

As for installing the pinion, you don't need to torque the nut. Just tighten it until it takes 10 to 20 inch pounds to turn. Nows a great time to replace the bearings and nut.

I use an old nut with the pinched down sections ground off so it goes on by hand, lube it up with ARP assembly lube and tighten it until the play is gone, zero preload.
Then take the yoke off, clean the pinion threads off with brake cleaner, install the new seal with grease on the inner lip, use some ARP sealant on the splines, loctite the threads, put the new nut on and don't waste time tightening it down until proper preload is set.

Once you get the preload set take a big hammer and piece of 4x4 wood to knock the pinion forward and backward to be sure the bearings are seated and the preload isn't going to change.
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
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First off on the torsen bolts you need to degrease everything and install them with red loctite. Usually they back out and break when they hit the housing, they don't just break. Unless you're over torqing them which sounds like a possibility.

As for installing the pinion, you don't need to torque the nut. Just tighten it until it takes 10 to 20 inch pounds to turn. Nows a great time to replace the bearings and nut.

I use an old nut with the pinched down sections ground off so it goes on by hand, lube it up with ARP assembly lube and tighten it until the play is gone, zero preload.
Then take the yoke off, clean the pinion threads off with brake cleaner, install the new seal with grease on the inner lip, use some ARP sealant on the splines, loctite the threads, put the new nut on and don't waste time tightening it down until proper preload is set.

Once you get the preload set take a big hammer and piece of 4x4 wood to knock the pinion forward and backward to be sure the bearings are seated and the preload isn't going to change.
You are correct on the torsen bolts, the only time I knew something broke was when they finally snapped off when they backed out enough to hit the housing right around where the carrier bearings are. The first time I brake cleaned it all and installed a new grade 8 bolt with red loctite. The second time it was another factory bolt, I did the same thing again, and now again it was a factory bolt, the other grade 8's were still tight and good. I ended up just replacing them all with new grade 8's after I cleaned it with brake clean and sat over night, I also took ring gear and reluctor ring off this time and cleaned everything very good and checked it all. I assembled it all back together while dry with red loctite and all new bolts, grade 8s for the 4 torsen bolts, then let it sit over night again, then I coated the bearing with mobil1 75-90 and coated all the internal gears and etc...Reason for letting dry so long is that the last 2 times when I took it out, the loctite pieces which looked like fingernail clippings were just floating in the fluid. I took it apart and had it all back together the last 2 times in 1 day, and let it sit overnight b4 driving the next day since its my only vehicle. I just got laid off so I'm doing it right this time, thats why I decided to change the pinion seal, but didnt expect the pinion to fall out and old crsh sleeve loose like it was never crushed b4. Supposably it was spun at one time or another. I am just having a very hard time tightening the pinion nut with yoke and new seal installed till it bottoms out in the races so theres no play, then I was going to tighten till It spins 1 turns max by hand. I thought at 1st the bearings might just be worn but the pinion moves front to back 1/8th inch so I know i just have a little bit to go, its getting a little more tension when I spin it but too much still. I'm using everything that was in it, only thing new is pinion seal,crsh sleeve, nut. I got 1 ft of room to torque it and I cant get more than 200ft lbs to it, I think it needs about 50 more ft lbs.
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:57 PM   #8
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I finally just took my torque arms and drive shaft out so now I have plenty of room to get some torque going. I am going to wait till tomorrow till im freshened up and might also take the tranny out since im this far, and check the LS7 clutch and the new GM slave I put in last year and see if it had anything to do with the clutch burning up on my launches and low ET and MPH. I dont see how my pinion crush sleeve being loose like it was "spun" on the pinion shaft could have binded the gears so hard to make a mid to upper 12 second F body burn the clutch instead of spin my Fuzion ZRi street tires even at a 4k launch???. I've never been able to launch over 2k without wheelspin. I'm thinking a few things were not ready for the track, and a few more things went wrong all in the same night with those 3 runs I had.
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:23 PM   #9
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hey what if you take off the nut to remove the seal? that screws up the pinion bearing right? now my rear end whines really loud especially over 40mph or so. highway speeds with windows up it's really loud. can anybody send me a link to directions on how to fix that? i know nothing about rear ends and dont have money to pay somebody else to do it all...
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:16 AM   #10
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i know nothing about rear ends and dont have money to pay somebody else to do it all...
Then why in the world would you have pulled it apart?

There are links located above to help you.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:38 PM   #11
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hey what if you take off the nut to remove the seal? that screws up the pinion bearing right? now my rear end whines really loud especially over 40mph or so. highway speeds with windows up it's really loud. can anybody send me a link to directions on how to fix that? i know nothing about rear ends and dont have money to pay somebody else to do it all...
I will pretty much guaran-dam-tee you the pinion nut was overtightened and the noise you hear is the outer pinion bearing shelling out. I would stop driving it immediately and read the aforementioned links.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:38 PM
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