3 Channel ABS questions
11-17-2010, 06:30 PM
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3 Channel ABS questions How can I keep my ABS with a 12 bolt rear? Can the reluctor wheel be pressed onto an old (stock 60's GM car) posi unit somehow? (Machining a step to receive it maybe?? I'm not to worried about fabbing up a hole for the sensor itself.
I have read and re-read several threads on swapping 8.8's and other rears into our cars, but I have yet to find any good info on keeping ABS in a 3 channel car.
I'm about to start a project with an old 12 bolt and mini-ladder bars to get around welding a TQ arm mount to the cast center.
I know I'll get plenty of responses to just buy an aftermarket or to go to a 9" or S60, but here are my reasons for going this route:
1. HOUSING - I already have a couple old 12 bolt housings, but I'm probably going to use one that is plenty wide from a 1969 Impala.
2. MAKING IT FIT - I have a friend who runs a machine shop as well as welds/fabs/chassis work from his home who owes me a few favors and is anxious to work on this since he'll probably do the same later for his own cars. He already has the tool that uses a bar and bushings to insure housing stay straight when narrowed & housing ends changed.
3. INTERNALS - I already have a set of 4.10's and 4.56's, 2 spare posi's, one spare spool, and a pair of c-clip eliminators....so I don't need to REbuy all this stuff.
4. SUSPENSION - I already have rectangular tube BMR lca's that we'll add tabs to for the mini-ladder bars. Making/welding the heim ended bars and the tabs will be cake for my friend.
5. AXLES - If I remember correctly, the Impala axles are already the right width, but if not we will narrow it to use Camaro/Chevelle 12 bolt length replacement axles. I can then use deep dish wheels when I want or run my stock wheels with a pair of 2" thick wheel spacers I already have.
If the reluctor can't be swapped on somehow, does anyone sell just a posi unit that's 3 channel compatible?
I plan on doing a full write up with pics when we get the ball rolling on this.
I have read and re-read several threads on swapping 8.8's and other rears into our cars, but I have yet to find any good info on keeping ABS in a 3 channel car.
I'm about to start a project with an old 12 bolt and mini-ladder bars to get around welding a TQ arm mount to the cast center.
I know I'll get plenty of responses to just buy an aftermarket or to go to a 9" or S60, but here are my reasons for going this route:
1. HOUSING - I already have a couple old 12 bolt housings, but I'm probably going to use one that is plenty wide from a 1969 Impala.
2. MAKING IT FIT - I have a friend who runs a machine shop as well as welds/fabs/chassis work from his home who owes me a few favors and is anxious to work on this since he'll probably do the same later for his own cars. He already has the tool that uses a bar and bushings to insure housing stay straight when narrowed & housing ends changed.
3. INTERNALS - I already have a set of 4.10's and 4.56's, 2 spare posi's, one spare spool, and a pair of c-clip eliminators....so I don't need to REbuy all this stuff.
4. SUSPENSION - I already have rectangular tube BMR lca's that we'll add tabs to for the mini-ladder bars. Making/welding the heim ended bars and the tabs will be cake for my friend.
5. AXLES - If I remember correctly, the Impala axles are already the right width, but if not we will narrow it to use Camaro/Chevelle 12 bolt length replacement axles. I can then use deep dish wheels when I want or run my stock wheels with a pair of 2" thick wheel spacers I already have.
If the reluctor can't be swapped on somehow, does anyone sell just a posi unit that's 3 channel compatible?
I plan on doing a full write up with pics when we get the ball rolling on this.
11-17-2010, 08:14 PM
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Can the reluctor wheel be pressed onto an old (stock 60's GM car) posi unit somehow? (Machining a step to receive it maybe?? I'm not to worried about fabbing up a hole for the sensor itself.
If the reluctor can't be swapped on somehow, does anyone sell just a posi unit that's 3 channel compatible?
If the reluctor can't be swapped on somehow, does anyone sell just a posi unit that's 3 channel compatible?
11-17-2010, 09:42 PM
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Thanks for replying. I kinda figured that would be the case. Can I buy a reluctor to fit the carrier I already have or do I have to buy a whole new posi unit with one on it? Who sells them? I've looked all over vender sites but only see regular stuff.
11-17-2010, 10:39 PM
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From what ive read you may be able to do an external reluctor ring, in particular putting it on the slip yoke of the driveshaft. Like you my rear is screwed and ive been looking for a replacement, but am cursed with this 3 channel, which makes it so much harder to keep abs, otherwise Id have a cast tq mount 8.8.
heres a thread on it, post if you find anything else on the subject
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/show...d.php?t=169674
heres a thread on it, post if you find anything else on the subject
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/show...d.php?t=169674
11-17-2010, 10:56 PM
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From what ive read you may be able to do an external reluctor ring, in particular putting it on the slip yoke of the driveshaft. Like you my rear is screwed and ive been looking for a replacement, but am cursed with this 3 channel, which makes it so much harder to keep abs, otherwise Id have a cast tq mount 8.8.
heres a thread on it, post if you find anything else on the subject
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/show...d.php?t=169674
heres a thread on it, post if you find anything else on the subject
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/show...d.php?t=169674
11-18-2010, 08:46 AM
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Yah wish they were too, I actually emailed the guy in that post and he replied, only picture he had was http://co116w.col116.mail.live.com/a...t=160&size=Att..
This is what he had to say about it.
"Joe, the car worked perfectly. The only reason I had more trouble with the 8.8 than I ever did with the ABS setup. Actually the guy I bought my 8.8 from took the pictures and information from me and started marketing it with his rear ends.
The only picture I have is this one that I've included....I've since sold the car to my friend but the 8.8 was long gone before that as it was junk.
If the 8.8 was one of those with 10 bolt axle tubes welded on it I'd run as far as I could from it. You might want to look at just buying a 9 inch housing and 31 spline axles from Moser. They ran about $950 back when I was looking. Then you can get a 9" center section with 31 spline axles, posi, and decent gears from around $150-400 and you're done. This is just my opinion and how I'd do it if I had to do it again.
Mike"
"My 8.8 was of the design where 10 bolt axle tubes were cut off and welded to the 8.8. The tubes began to crack on my rear. The torque arm mount rubbed my floor as the differential is so big the mount has to be off to the side to clear it. Most if not all 8.8's are all custom built/home built. For the same or less money I could get a 9" housing and axle that would be made by a big name company. "
This is what he had to say about it.
"Joe, the car worked perfectly. The only reason I had more trouble with the 8.8 than I ever did with the ABS setup. Actually the guy I bought my 8.8 from took the pictures and information from me and started marketing it with his rear ends.
The only picture I have is this one that I've included....I've since sold the car to my friend but the 8.8 was long gone before that as it was junk.
If the 8.8 was one of those with 10 bolt axle tubes welded on it I'd run as far as I could from it. You might want to look at just buying a 9 inch housing and 31 spline axles from Moser. They ran about $950 back when I was looking. Then you can get a 9" center section with 31 spline axles, posi, and decent gears from around $150-400 and you're done. This is just my opinion and how I'd do it if I had to do it again.
Mike"
"My 8.8 was of the design where 10 bolt axle tubes were cut off and welded to the 8.8. The tubes began to crack on my rear. The torque arm mount rubbed my floor as the differential is so big the mount has to be off to the side to clear it. Most if not all 8.8's are all custom built/home built. For the same or less money I could get a 9" housing and axle that would be made by a big name company. "
Last edited by joe77; 11-18-2010 at 08:57 AM.
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11-18-2010, 06:34 PM
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Yah wish they were too, I actually emailed the guy in that post and he replied, only picture he had was http://co116w.col116.mail.live.com/a...t=160&size=Att..
This is what he had to say about it.
"Joe, the car worked perfectly. The only reason I had more trouble with the 8.8 than I ever did with the ABS setup. Actually the guy I bought my 8.8 from took the pictures and information from me and started marketing it with his rear ends.
The only picture I have is this one that I've included....I've since sold the car to my friend but the 8.8 was long gone before that as it was junk.
If the 8.8 was one of those with 10 bolt axle tubes welded on it I'd run as far as I could from it. You might want to look at just buying a 9 inch housing and 31 spline axles from Moser. They ran about $950 back when I was looking. Then you can get a 9" center section with 31 spline axles, posi, and decent gears from around $150-400 and you're done. This is just my opinion and how I'd do it if I had to do it again.
Mike"
"My 8.8 was of the design where 10 bolt axle tubes were cut off and welded to the 8.8. The tubes began to crack on my rear. The torque arm mount rubbed my floor as the differential is so big the mount has to be off to the side to clear it. Most if not all 8.8's are all custom built/home built. For the same or less money I could get a 9" housing and axle that would be made by a big name company. "
This is what he had to say about it.
"Joe, the car worked perfectly. The only reason I had more trouble with the 8.8 than I ever did with the ABS setup. Actually the guy I bought my 8.8 from took the pictures and information from me and started marketing it with his rear ends.
The only picture I have is this one that I've included....I've since sold the car to my friend but the 8.8 was long gone before that as it was junk.
If the 8.8 was one of those with 10 bolt axle tubes welded on it I'd run as far as I could from it. You might want to look at just buying a 9 inch housing and 31 spline axles from Moser. They ran about $950 back when I was looking. Then you can get a 9" center section with 31 spline axles, posi, and decent gears from around $150-400 and you're done. This is just my opinion and how I'd do it if I had to do it again.
Mike"
"My 8.8 was of the design where 10 bolt axle tubes were cut off and welded to the 8.8. The tubes began to crack on my rear. The torque arm mount rubbed my floor as the differential is so big the mount has to be off to the side to clear it. Most if not all 8.8's are all custom built/home built. For the same or less money I could get a 9" housing and axle that would be made by a big name company. "
I am not looking to run in the 8's, 9's, and probably not even 10's with my car. I just want to get to 11's with a street car and not worry about the 7.5" snapping every few runs.
Do you think he could give you any information on where to get the gear made for the trans slip yoke? Or any specs on it...such as outer diameter and thickness? Inner diameter would be dictated by the yoke and the thickness I guess could be the same as the stock from the differential, but the outer diameter....wonder if that matters much?
11-18-2010, 06:53 PM
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I dont think it would matter, but Im no expert, I think you just need the right amount of teeth and the right distance to the sensor. I believe people do similar things for vss. There are other threads on the subject but I unfortunately didnt bookmark the others.
Another possibility, if that fails - in theory, you could bolt a toothed wheel matching the number of teeth on the stock reluctor gear, onto the pinion flange. Here's a reluctor wheel on a 9-inch pinion, with pickup. That particlular one it to get pinion RPM, to keep track of tranny slip, but the idea would be the same.
http://www.injuneer.com/images/photo.../DCP03821a.jpg
Another possibility, if that fails - in theory, you could bolt a toothed wheel matching the number of teeth on the stock reluctor gear, onto the pinion flange. Here's a reluctor wheel on a 9-inch pinion, with pickup. That particlular one it to get pinion RPM, to keep track of tranny slip, but the idea would be the same.
http://www.injuneer.com/images/photo.../DCP03821a.jpg
11-20-2010, 06:11 AM
#10
If i were doing it, I'd just do away with the ABS. If you don't hook it up at the rear, none of the ABS will work, you'll be back to old school brakes where you can lock them up if you want to. You'll have the light glowing on the dash that you can eliminate, you could even take out the entire ABS assembly and take some weight out of the car. Bob
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11-21-2010, 12:54 AM
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Right....I grew up without power steering or power brakes...much less ABS, but I still want to keep all that for a couple reasons. Mainly I won't be the only driver - my girlfriend and later my kids will be behind the wheel and their safety is #1. Also, it's one of 176 Sebring Silver T-top M6 SS's, so I'd like to keep it mostly in tact. It already had alot of bolt-ons when I got it, but nothing that couldn't easily be reversed.
