stone150

iTrader: (2)

I have 3 vehicles with LS based engines:

2001 Silverado - LM7 5.3L - 170K


2008 Z06 - LS7 7.0L - 17K


2012 CTS-V wagon - LSA 6.2L - 32K



Since I only drive one vehicle at a time, they each have a tendency to sit for varrying amounts of time. The Z06 is a play vehicle and only comes out on the weekends, every week to 6 weeks.

The truck was my DD for 9 years, it was stolen back in February and recovered. now I drive it every day for a week or two and then swtich off with the CTS-V

The CTS-V was supposed to be the replacement for the truck, but I love my truck too much. So I alternate every week or two driving the two vehicles.

All vehicles are filled with M1 5W-30

Long Term Storage:
I'm getting concerned about the truck, I'm getting some noise out of the engine and it seems to be getting worse. I was told a main bearing was probably going bad back in December, but I have between 40-60 PSI of oil pressure. In any manner I am getting a knocking noise. Not mention I am at times getting a "gear whine" noise, that i don't remember before the truck was stolen.

I love the truck but I am thinking about putting it into long term storage until my son gets older and we can work on it together. I estimate it will take $7-8K of investment in a new engine,trans and transfer case rebuild to get it where I want.
What would I need to do to prep it for 10+ years of storage. I assume when I get it out I would need to hit it with a pressure oiler.


Short term storage:
What is the longest an LS engine can sit (a week, 2, or etc) before I need to worry about causing allot of damage consistently on start up?
Is there anything I can do to minimize damage damage on a week to 6 week storage time frame? I've seen pressure oilers for these cars and using it every time I want to start up the Z seems like a pain in the ***.

Firebrian

I would think most of the oil on friction parts is in the sump within 6-24 hours. In any case the oil is cold again (<100 F) within a few hours. So I don't see much difference in wear/damage in daily starts vs 2 week starts. Pressure oilers certainly help. But considering most cars are started up cold every day, you'd only be getting 2.5% of the "wear" by doing it once every 6 weeks. What DD's see in one month, you'll theoretically get in 3-1/2 years. I'd just run the vehicle every 4-6 weeks weather permitting. The winter cold starts (vehicle stored in ambient temp <10-15 deg F) are probably the most "damaging" so I'd limit those to 6 weeks or more. You can also pre-heat the oil to 65-100 deg F with a space heater aimed at the oil sump or a dip stick heater. I'm of the opinion that once a vehicle has sat for a day or so the "damage" from the next start is the same whether it's been 1 day or 1 year. An important issue from long sitting is keeping the seals lubricated. There are a lot of LS owners that keep their toys in hibernation from Nov-March each year due to living in northern states. I don't think they come out of that in that bad a shape from just one start.

In 10 yrs your 170K mile 2001 Silverado will be 23 years old. I understand the family attachment but in 10+ yrs you might feel far different about a 23 yr old truck, esp. one that has a bad engine and has been sitting for 10 yrs. A lot of other systems on that truck are going to die from 10 years of age/sitting. The more economical route to me would be sell that now and pick a more suitable project in 10 years...such as a 2011 Silverado with 170K miles and a bum engine. At least that would not have been sitting around for 10 years. It might seem "easy" today talking about keeping up on the 2001 in storage over the next 10 yrs....but it will probably become harder each and every year that it sits. It will take up space in the garage, next to the house, or in a storage facility ($$). In 10 years there will be a lot more choices on project trucks and cars as the technology in them has been jumping by leaps and bounds.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

My '98 has sat each winter for 4-6 months, usually not being started at all during that period. As stated above, the greatest amount of wear that a street engine will typically see is at a cold start (especially a cold weather cold start), so running the engine without the intent to drive the car is only doing more harm than good, IMO.

During the on-season, my '98 car often sits for 3-4 weeks without being run or started, as it too is a weekend/car show only vehicle and I alternate duties with my '71. My engine is 10 years older than yours, I've never used any sort of special oiling system prior to starting it and the engine has no issues at all. This is the sort of life that this car has always lived, and now at 16 years of age it's doing much better than my daily-driven '02 Camaro did in terms of gasket leaks/seepage/etc. There are people who have the idea that seldom-used cars will "rot away" from sitting, etc. This is absolutely not true if the car is maintained properly for its role (meaning fluids still need to be changed, albeit not always as often, and fuel should be treated - especially E10 fuels, and the car should be well warmed up/driven on those occasions that you do start it). Furthermore, driving a car regularly certainly doesn't reduce overall wear or aging as compared to seldom usage, as heat cycling/friction/road vibrations/general wear will all be increased exponentially with daily use. Again, in my own personal "experiment", my daily driven '02 LS1 developed more leaks/squeaks/worn parts than my garage queen '98 ever has, even though the '98 is four years older.

Having said that, the only special thing I would do with your Z06 is to keep the fuel treated with some sort of stabilizer, since it's probably quite a long time between fill-ups based on your outline of usage. You might also want to consider a battery tender; I don't use one myself (I just hook up a smart charger once every 4-6 weeks if I don't drive the car during that period, seems to work well as I always get plenty of life out of my batteries - current battery is 5+ years old and still doing fine) but some people like them.

As far as long term storage, the longest I've ever gone is 7 years, but that was with a '76 Eldorado/500ci engine. Frankly, there was nothing done to prep this car for storage since it was unplanned and only sat because a relative died. Surprisingly, it fired up well and didn't seem to have any issues from the hibernation, other than poor performance from the old fuel. If you plan to store the truck indoors, and the engine is already shot, I don't see anything else serious going wrong unless rodents get into the wiring or you leave already-old dexcool in there for all that time (in which case I would expect some heater core/radiator/cooling system issues).

Fry_

I have a rather extensive storage system for putting my cars into and taking them out of 4-7 month wither storage. I start by checking the tire pressure and filling to ~5lbs over normal and filling the gas tank with ethanol free fuel, then I park it in the garage in it's designated spot. Mid winter I'll throw a trickle charger on each car for a few days. When spring comes I'll check the tire pressure and drive the car, thats it, no fuel additives or any other special treatment. Ethanol free fuel is the most important part of this if you do this with E10 you'll be asking for trouble. I also change the oil in the Trans Am every fall because it's usually do if not a little over do for a oil change and then I don't have to worry about it in the spring.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Many of us don't even have this available.

Not true, as long as you at least use a fuel stabilizer. Mine has been stored every winter for 16 years on E10 fuel, 4-6 months at a time. In fact, sometimes it only sees one full tank of gas per year. 100% assembly line original fuel system (other than fuel filter changes), and after sitting for ~6 months in storage the engine fires up like it was just running yesterday - no long cranking, no "sputtering" to life or anything else like that.

Keeping the tank full during storage also helps with E10, as the less air there is in the tank, the less moisture will be possible.

Of course, ethanol-free fuel would be preferred if available, but again many of us don't have that option.

I'm not sure why some people have such issues storing engines with E10 fuels. I do this with carb'ed as well as fuel injected engines, year after year, without any issues. Some people talk about having to rebuild their carbs after every winter of storage with old, seldom driven cars; mine is going on 6 years now without a rebuild and it works perfectly (and looked super clean inside when I pulled the fuel bowl off a couple years ago). I use Stabil every time I put fuel in either of my garage queens though.

stone150

iTrader: (2)

Luckily or unluckily I live in Texas, so the thing that keeps the vette in the garage is usually rain or family/baby responsibilites. But I do understand what you are saying and I wasn't too sure how long it would take for most of the oil tor drain out vs. the remaining thin film working its way out of the bearing. The one thing I noticed about starting the truck up in july after it sat for a month or two, it seemed as if it was making allot more racket at start-up than normal for the first 15-30 seconds, but I could be imagining things.

The truck is a complicated equation, when they recover the truck they just paid me out for it, so I only have 3K in it, could probably sell it for $7K. My inlaws recently built a house out in the country and they are going to build a metal barn out there, I have proposed helping pay for a little larger one if I can store vehicles there over the years. So I would have access every month or 2 when we go visit them and could start it up and move it around.

One of the things I hated about loosing the truck was I didn't like the newer trucks (07-13), my friend has one and they are just a little too big for my tastes and there are parts I just don't like about them. I like the body style of mine, the steel is thicker, it is lighter, still cable throttle body and they have enough computers to make the engine run well, but not overly invasive. not to mention I have so many custom touches that are very difficult to find today. In any case I would buy a new truck, and like I mention use the other one down the road to rebuild an engine and tranny with my son. But I understand what you are saying, and nothing is set in stone at this time.

Thanks, I found out i needed a battery tender on the Z pretty fast, that thing will drain the battery in just over 2 weeks (seems like this may be the case with the CTS too). This was a huge issue when we lived in a condo and it was parked in the basement, I would get busy and forget then I'd have to get my truck or wife's GT down there to jump it. So now it sits on a tender. I have gotten in the habit of putting some kind of stabilizer in it, it will go 3-6 months between fill ups and i usually change the oil once a year.

But it seems like if I decide to store the truck, every time I am up there I need to move it and change fluids as needed. Plus trying to keep critters out, and that is a major consideration.

I can't say I know where to buy ethanol free fuel and i've noticed issues when my motorcycle sits over the summer months, but not as much with the Z. But I apprecaite the input.



So there seems to be a concensus that an oil additive, such as lucas oil stablilizer, isn't needed for long or short storage.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I would suspect that battery of being weak then. As a point of reference, the current battery (AC Delco Professional series) in my '98 is over 5 years old so I've been keeping a close eye on voltage as it's reaching the end of average service life. The car recently sat for over 3 weeks and battery voltage was about 12.4v - this was plenty for strong cranking of the engine when I took it out last weekend.

If you have a battery that is going dead (or dropping to low enough voltage to not start the engine) in just two weeks, then you either have an excessive drain somewhere or the battery is ready for replacement.

DANOZ28

iTrader: (1)

my opinion differs from rpm, i think if you have full synthetic oil starting a car and running it for 20 or 30 min about once a month is better than leaving it sit for 6 months with valve springs / lifters stuck in same position. i try not to start my car below 30 in winter. keeping the gas tank full & either battery charger or dis connecting battery is a good idea. ps nobody on this msg board has provided any proof my way is bad. i've had my camaro for 10 years & it purrs like a kitten. also 2 daily drivers that i've put over 200k miles on in my lifetime!

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

The valve spring concern isn't much of a worry with hydro lifters IMO, and anyway as we've discussed before you can always turn the engine by hand if you're really concerned (this would also allow the rings to be moved on the cylinder walls, if you're also worried about that)....no need to start the engine for this.

If you do any research at all regarding motor oil, you will discover that cold flow is the weakest link in lubrication for the typical street engine. Cold starts are in fact the greatest contributor to wear for most street engines, and cold weather cold starts are the worst of the worst. You don't have to take my word for it, do the reseach yourself if you wish.

Having said that, a few extra cold starts in any weather certainly isn't going to kill an engine. I would never imply or suggest that. However, if the discussion is about reducing wear as much as possible, then extra cold starts (especially in cold weather) when you don't even plan to drive the car is the less desirable method. Not to mention the fact that you aren't getting the oil hot enough by simply idling the car for 20 minutes in cold, winter weather.

It's great that your method has worked for you for 10 years. I've been using my method for 16 years now with my LS1s and also SBCs, so far I've had exactly zero issues doing so.

DANOZ28

iTrader: (1)

its wonderful that your way has worked for you for 16 years. please dont impy that your way is the bible and mine is certain engine death. thankyou.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

You might want to consider taking a breath and re-reading a post before writing a reply like this. If you had, you would've noticed the following statement that directly negates your accusation:

stone150

iTrader: (2)

It has been my understanding that with all the computers in the C6 that they are just a battery drain, at least from what I have read on corvette forum. I will admit that the first time it just started after 3 weeks and then went down after that. I have reconditioned the battery with tender I have and have less issues, but then again it doesen't sit off the charger for more than a couple days.

But as I mentioned the CTS sat for 2 weeks and had little trouble starting.

is the reason for turning it over a few times without the coil packs hooked up vs. just starting it have to do with the stress on the bearings from the combustion process?

Firebrian

I recall one very long winter where I could not get my '68 Plymouth GTX out for a monthly spin. After 6 weeks of bad weather I decided to run the car in the garage. I pushed it out a few feet so that the tail end was a couple feet outside. Then I placed cushions all over the trunk of the car and brought the garage door down to that level. All the remaining openings were blocked with cardboard. I had already pre-heated the garage/motor oil to 60/80 deg with a space heater over several hours. I blocked the radiator with cardboard to ensure no cooling air flow got to it. Once the car was started it heated up pretty fast. Within 10 min the garage was 75-80 degrees and the coolant temp was around 210 deg. At that point I cracked in a little air flow to the radiator. I gave the car a good 30 min run overall and I know the engine got plenty hot....even if the rest of the drive train did not.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

That's interesting to hear. Considering Corvettes are usually second cars/weekend toys that often spend a great deal of time sitting in owners' garages, I'm surprised their on-board electronics would be designed in such a way as to kill a healthy battery in just a couple of weeks. I have not owned a C6 specifically so I don't have any personal experience with that particular concern.

Usually the only reason why someone would do this is to lubricate an engine prior to first firing after a rebuild/internal work, since you can't use the old fashioned method of a drill bit extension down the distributor shaft hole on these engines.

stone150

iTrader: (2)

You would think that, but no. The 05s are the worst, they have to be left in reverse or the battery drains really fast.


got it, I guess you will just have less stress on the components than if they were firing.

stone150

iTrader: (2)

That sounds like allot of dedication, but I understand, I started the truck in the garage for 15 min and it barely got to temp in texas july heat.

Firebrian

Even 100 deg F Texas heat across the radiator is plenty of cooling for the coolant that's running around at 150-200 F. Without coolant heat removal once the thermostat opens there's really nothing to remove the engine heat other than losses to ambient which are fairly small vs. the radiator. Take 1 min to put a piece of cardboard over part or all of the radiator and it will heat up plenty fast to operating temp. Just don't forget to increase the cooling if the coolant temp starts heading over 210-220 deg. F. You often see tractor trailer trucks in the winter running around with 1/2 to 2/3 of the radiator blocked.

stone150

iTrader: (2)

Makes sense and the fact it is a clutch type fan, not electric adds to the cooling when idling.