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Power window motor upgrade!?!?!
03-30-2013, 03:00 PM
#1
Power window motor upgrade!?!?! Ok so if you owned a 4th gen fbody with electric windows I'm sure you've all had to change your window motors out. They suck and it is terrible. The windows are just to big and heavy for those little motors and they are already doomed the day you install new ones.
So I am about to install some window motors because mine are out again as usual. I am going to go ahead and buy a whole new window and regulator kit just to eliminate anything that might be speeding up the wearing out process.
My question is has anyone ever upgraded the power window motor to a new and better unit? I would like to put a high torque unit in there but haven't seen anything on it.
After doing some research I have found 2 different set ups (other than stock) 1.)Electric Life has a full regulator/motor kit that looks nice, but I have read a lot of people have problems with them being weak as well. And 2.) 1A Auto makes a full kit as well with different style window motors on them. Has anyone had any experience with this kit? Good bad?
Has anyone had or done anything besides using stock window motors to make them not suck????? I know everyone wants to know! Let's hear what you've done!
So I am about to install some window motors because mine are out again as usual. I am going to go ahead and buy a whole new window and regulator kit just to eliminate anything that might be speeding up the wearing out process.
My question is has anyone ever upgraded the power window motor to a new and better unit? I would like to put a high torque unit in there but haven't seen anything on it.
After doing some research I have found 2 different set ups (other than stock) 1.)Electric Life has a full regulator/motor kit that looks nice, but I have read a lot of people have problems with them being weak as well. And 2.) 1A Auto makes a full kit as well with different style window motors on them. Has anyone had any experience with this kit? Good bad?
Has anyone had or done anything besides using stock window motors to make them not suck????? I know everyone wants to know! Let's hear what you've done!
03-30-2013, 06:15 PM
#3
Autotrix kit was definitely on the todo list as well. I've heard good things. I assume you have done it? That is primarily for the passenger side window fix though correct? Nothing for the driver side huh? Driver side window woes are still gona be a future issue.
For those who have changed window motors with fresh new ones what are you seeing on their usable life? Mine barely lasted 5 years on a dailydriver and that was with me helping i toward the end. Pretty sad when most foreign cars will go a lifetime with no issues.
For those who have changed window motors with fresh new ones what are you seeing on their usable life? Mine barely lasted 5 years on a dailydriver and that was with me helping i toward the end. Pretty sad when most foreign cars will go a lifetime with no issues.
03-31-2013, 08:39 AM
#7
YES! This has been done. Please don't repeat my fail - its very expensive: https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...ment-over.html
The EL motors are even smaller and very weak. Then... when they go out, you can't replace them without buying entirely new regulator assemblies.
We've kicked this around multiple threads and going with the new design Dorman motor seems to be the best option. Its been around for 5+ years now, I think and we have yet to have someone post that one has died on them.
If you look at a part number reference, you can see that the OEM design motor started appearing on cars in the 1960's!
I'd also recommend staying away from the AutoTrix kit. Its pure snake oil. It doesn't financially pay off and one could debate if it really "works" as advertised. (It doesn't fix motors or change their mechanics but will make a bad motor look better.) Bottom line - you can get a lifetime warranty motor from Dorman for less than the kits and just replace them if they ever go bad. (If you use a the shbox replacement method, the switch out will take 5-10 min per door after the first time where you have to drill the holes.)
If you are going to replace the regulator assemblies, there are some things you'll want to watch out for so this doesn't happen: https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...-included.html
Drilling out the rivets well is key so you don't damage the fiberglass. Its also important to replace the rivets with rivets gotten from GM. Nuts and bolts will tear up the door and lead to the problem above, as will regular rivets. The OEM design is an aluminum jacket, steel mandrel rivet, which are hard to come by in the proper size. Once you have the GM rivets, you'll also need a special riveter.
It may be easier to keep your existing regulators and re-hab them in the door with Syl-Glyde vs. replace them if they are still in good condition. I'd only replace them if the rollers on the arms are flat spotted. Otherwise, I doubt you'll find the difference between a well lubed old regulator and a new one. (They are pretty simple - just three pieces of stamped metal, two riveted together, a bearing, and some plastic rollers.)
The EL motors are even smaller and very weak. Then... when they go out, you can't replace them without buying entirely new regulator assemblies.
We've kicked this around multiple threads and going with the new design Dorman motor seems to be the best option. Its been around for 5+ years now, I think and we have yet to have someone post that one has died on them.
If you look at a part number reference, you can see that the OEM design motor started appearing on cars in the 1960's!
I'd also recommend staying away from the AutoTrix kit. Its pure snake oil. It doesn't financially pay off and one could debate if it really "works" as advertised. (It doesn't fix motors or change their mechanics but will make a bad motor look better.) Bottom line - you can get a lifetime warranty motor from Dorman for less than the kits and just replace them if they ever go bad. (If you use a the shbox replacement method, the switch out will take 5-10 min per door after the first time where you have to drill the holes.)
If you are going to replace the regulator assemblies, there are some things you'll want to watch out for so this doesn't happen: https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...-included.html
Drilling out the rivets well is key so you don't damage the fiberglass. Its also important to replace the rivets with rivets gotten from GM. Nuts and bolts will tear up the door and lead to the problem above, as will regular rivets. The OEM design is an aluminum jacket, steel mandrel rivet, which are hard to come by in the proper size. Once you have the GM rivets, you'll also need a special riveter.
It may be easier to keep your existing regulators and re-hab them in the door with Syl-Glyde vs. replace them if they are still in good condition. I'd only replace them if the rollers on the arms are flat spotted. Otherwise, I doubt you'll find the difference between a well lubed old regulator and a new one. (They are pretty simple - just three pieces of stamped metal, two riveted together, a bearing, and some plastic rollers.)
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03-31-2013, 09:10 AM
#8
That's good to hear. I have been looking at the dorman units. Just haven't heard anything about them. Not only are my windows going out but there is a lot of moving and clunking around going on in there. So I think having to remove the regs is my only option. I have pulled them on previous cars so I do have the tools for it. I learned the hard way what not using the factory rivets does
Looks like I'm buying some dorman units. I'll take some pictures and let you know how it goes. Wssix99 your saying I shouldn't add the autotrix kit when I do the window motors? I figured a stronger supply of power would help. At least that's what they claim it does.
Looks like I'm buying some dorman units. I'll take some pictures and let you know how it goes. Wssix99 your saying I shouldn't add the autotrix kit when I do the window motors? I figured a stronger supply of power would help. At least that's what they claim it does.
03-31-2013, 09:55 AM
#9
Clunking could be a number of things. You just have to get in there, take the water shield off, and take out the door speaker. Once you do that, you should have a good view of what's going on. There are other fittings on the door that could be loose or someone may have done a nuts and bolts motor replacement in the past. (They often come loose and wreak havoc.)
BTW - If you take the regs out, be sure to put a large bolt, washers, and nut through the holes of the arm and holder so the spring doesn't explode when you take the glass load off it.
I won't say you shouldn't buy something. I will just say that I personally don't think they are worth the money. People who buy them seem to think they are a wise investment, but that may have more to do with the psychology of spending money than actual engineering.
Bypassing the internal wiring with relays reduces the resistance and voltage drop in the circuit before power gets to the motors. (I measured this voltage drop in my car once and it was a fraction of a volt.) With a slightly higher voltage delivered to the motor, slightly more power can be supplied and a marginally performing motor may show improvement. (This method may "save" a weak motor from being replaced, but it won't save a dead one.) In the end, the only hope of this method is to prolong the useful life of a motor.
When I weigh the effort to replace a motor after an original shbox replacement vs. free replacement of lifetime warranty Dorman motors vs. the cost of a wire and relay kit vs. the added maintenance burden of making the system more complicated - I can make an easy decision to leave the wiring stock.
Everyone has their own personal economics and I'm sure there are some folks who are burdened by replacing the motors to the point where spending the extra money makes sense.
BTW - If you take the regs out, be sure to put a large bolt, washers, and nut through the holes of the arm and holder so the spring doesn't explode when you take the glass load off it.
I won't say you shouldn't buy something. I will just say that I personally don't think they are worth the money. People who buy them seem to think they are a wise investment, but that may have more to do with the psychology of spending money than actual engineering.
When I weigh the effort to replace a motor after an original shbox replacement vs. free replacement of lifetime warranty Dorman motors vs. the cost of a wire and relay kit vs. the added maintenance burden of making the system more complicated - I can make an easy decision to leave the wiring stock.
Everyone has their own personal economics and I'm sure there are some folks who are burdened by replacing the motors to the point where spending the extra money makes sense.
03-31-2013, 10:00 AM
#10
Ok so I did a little more looking. And the 2 brands that come out as the best are dorman and VDO. Most people probably don't dive this deep when considering power window motors but I don't want to keep having to do this so I'm trying to get the best.
Ok so here is your standard dorman unit.....
Ok so here is your standard dorman unit.....
03-31-2013, 07:03 PM
#18
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I would just like to say that I agree with everything wssix99 has posted in this thread.
I too would not personally spend the time nor money for the AutoTrix kit on mine, especially since the kit seems to offer the greatest "improvement" on the passenger side, and so far even without the kit my passenger side motor has lasted me longer (still original at 104k miles and working decent) than the driver's side.
I don't remember what the Dorman that I bought for the driver's side looked like, but if the new style has been out for 5+ years now then I have to imagine it was the new style that I bought in '10.
I don't know what's going on with the people that need to replace these motors every couple years or so. My original driver's side lasted 8 years/90k+ miles, and the passenger side is now 11 years/100k+ miles old and still working. My speculation is that people with tinted windows will see more issues in this regard, since the tinting paper adds a bit of extra drag in areas where the widow moves against the sweep. Also, if you try to roll the windows down in freezing weather, sometimes they get a little stuck and this puts a lot of extra strain on the motor. And lastly, I never roll both windows up OR down at the same time; that helps to minimize the voltage drop even without the AutoTrix kit, thus extending lifespan of each motor.
I too would not personally spend the time nor money for the AutoTrix kit on mine, especially since the kit seems to offer the greatest "improvement" on the passenger side, and so far even without the kit my passenger side motor has lasted me longer (still original at 104k miles and working decent) than the driver's side.
I don't remember what the Dorman that I bought for the driver's side looked like, but if the new style has been out for 5+ years now then I have to imagine it was the new style that I bought in '10.
I don't know what's going on with the people that need to replace these motors every couple years or so. My original driver's side lasted 8 years/90k+ miles, and the passenger side is now 11 years/100k+ miles old and still working. My speculation is that people with tinted windows will see more issues in this regard, since the tinting paper adds a bit of extra drag in areas where the widow moves against the sweep. Also, if you try to roll the windows down in freezing weather, sometimes they get a little stuck and this puts a lot of extra strain on the motor. And lastly, I never roll both windows up OR down at the same time; that helps to minimize the voltage drop even without the AutoTrix kit, thus extending lifespan of each motor.
03-31-2013, 07:42 PM
#19
The dorman replacement window motor part# is 88960088. And that is the oem style motor. I'm sure most autopart stores offer it. Just ask who the manufacturer is. I am going to try and call dorman tomorrow and see if I can get an answer on what the deal is with the new motor/regulator setup they are now offering. And how it compares to there oem style motor.
