dailydriver

Is there ANYTHING that can be done to save these, or is it time for new ones when this happens on f bodies?? Drill/tap/install larger bleeder, etc.?

Not that mine should not be replaced after serving me faithfully for 15 years, and 180K+ miles.

Maybe it's time for that Wilwood big brake, 4 piston front setup, or at least a C5/6 conversion.

Also, is the official GM Helms manual just trying to scare us into NOT dumping the EGR system by stating that it will cause; detonation, overheating, and poor fuel economy?

I know MOST on here have dumped both this, and the A.I.R. system, without even tuning the ECM after (whether with a long tube installation, or not), but is there ANY truth at all in the factory Helms statements?

In any case HOW did the factory/original (before any mods) C5s, and '01-'02 f body LSes compensate (and meet emissions, etc.) for not having an EGR system; cam profile/timing, fuel trims, ignition timing, ???

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

I always thought these things were brass and didn't rust. (I fear to look at mine, now.) Maybe the rust is just cosmetic and from galvanic action between the iron and brass. (If that's the case, it should be able to be cleaned up.)


I think this may be a sign that you should do the switch. ... and post lots of pictures and a how-to!


The GM Factory Service Manuals are so well done, I can't imagine using the Helms'.

I'm sure that the EGR helps the PCM control detonation (although, I would be surprised if you'd really notice this happening) and it definitely helps fuel economy. Overheating sounds like a stretch.

I always thought the proponents of EGR and AIR deletes lived in emissions-friendly areas. I know in IL, I could get away with it because we just do OBDII tests. I recall PA is much more stringent and actually measures gas concentrations, right?

dailydriver

The Helms manual IS the official GM factory Service Manual, Helms is just the actual company which prints it.

No, we do not have any 'sniffer' tests here in Pennsyltuckey (that I know of, unless it is for pre-OBD 2 cars??).
But we DO have 'privatized' inspections as our ONLY source/choice for yearly inspections, and one is at the mercy of who one goes to to get this done as to just how gestapo/draconian they are going to be in looking at anything (misssing/changed/altered) to the emissions systems, BEYOND one passing the OBD 2 plug in test (which I WILL pass).

I do NOT like this as it gives the shop/station an incentive to be picayune about ANYTHING they can find, hoping it could mean a BIG R&R payday for them.

One other thing, could the PO 1133/1153 DTCs be set by even the minutest leak anywhere along that EGR tube from the manifold up to the EGR valve's base (i.e.; in the tube itself, in EITHER gasket, etc.)??

Thanks,

Dave H.

BTW: I would just replace the EGR valve, but the AC Delcos and the Delphis are all gone, and all that is left are the garbage Standards, Cardones, Dormans, etc., and I have better things to spend $110.00 to $140.00 on for this car.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Holy brain fart! I know better than that. I saw "Helms" and read "Haynes."


When I lived in VA, it was the same system for inspections. A total crap shoot each year, depending on the station/person doing the inspection. Now I live in IL, where we have no inspections. I now pay for that in increased (by a huge margin) insurance costs and an increased likelihood that some crack head in a beater will ram in to me.


I would think so, if the leak is bad enough to cause the engine to run lean all the time. But, I'd think that would be a pretty significant leak.


Do you think your EGR is bad? I've read that these things are really stout and not like the earlier versions on older cars. This is a part that I would be comfortable taking a chance on as a used part from a yard.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Slightly different cam profile for the C5 (vs. F-body in the '98-'00 years), and significantly different profile (vs. '00 and prior) for both the C5 and F-body LS1 in the '01+ years.

I've never bothered to delete the EGR on a '98-'00 with a stock cam, but I've known many who have (usually due to installing an LS6 intake and/or headers) and they didn't experience any negative issues from doing so. But, as mentioned above, here in IL we don't have to worry about sniff or visual inspections. That would be a big negative to deal with for people in regions with thorough visual inspections.

dailydriver

One more question on the EGR system;

Is it even possible for one to dump the whole EGR system, install block-off plates, and NOT have ANY DTCs/SESes (either permanent/stored, OR pending) as a result, even after MANY cycles, and even with a more sensitive to this sort of thing, 50 state/C.A.R.B. ECM???

Would an even slightly richer tune (I have a CMR/Diablosport installed tune from ECS in it now) possibly prevent the DTCs from setting??

I cannot think of anything else which would be preventing the code(s) from setting, anyone?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

You can custom tune the PCM to allow a given DTC to run (DTC test "on") but not trip the the SES (MIL = Type X/off). This is the typical method of getting a PCM to pass an OBD scan test with emissions equipment removed. The test will still show as complete, but the MIL will not be triggered nor any failure data stored when it is set to a Type X. You can also set it to a Type C to avoid the MIL but retain the freeze frame data, if you so desired. Type C DTCs will not cause an OBD-scan emissions test failure as they do not trigger a MIL even though they retain freeze frame data. Only Type A and B DTCs will cause a MIL and thus emissions scan failure.

dailydriver

Thanks, but I know about the DTC 'Types', and will have them changed/written out to a Type X.

What I was actually asking was; is there ANY chance WITHOUT a tune/type change, that NO/NONE/NADA/ZERO DTCs at all would be tripped (again, neither pending, or stored/permanent), under any other circumstances, since this is EXACTLY what has happened in my case, even MANY cycles past first removing ALL of the EGR system, and blocking it off?
(This perplexes me, especially with my 50 state/C.A.R.B. ECM parameters!)

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

I would think that even if the engine self-tuned to handle not having emissions components, you'd get codes from the sensors not being "seen" by the PCM.

Are you the original owner? Any chance someone could have blocked your engine light and that the codes are being stored in the PCM - just not giving you the usual notice?

dailydriver

I am the ONLY owner from new, and the VERY strange thing is that once the CMR tuner who just 'wrote out' the EGR system/codes did so, the SES light came on.

It was confirmed by him since he hooked up an HP Tuners program to it to just check and see (NO entries/tuning, or anything else) IF the EGR was DEFINITELY 'turned off', and YES IT WAS!

The SCREWIEST thing is that when he went back to the Diablosport CMR software, and turned the EGR system codes back 'on', THE SES LIGHT WENT OFF (and has STAYED OFF for many cycles!)?!?!??

Is my ECM compromised, or 'corrupted' in some way that this is happening??
It has been tuned twice before this, one time WAY WAY back with an LS1 Edit program, but as far as I know, ALL of the emissions systems were left intact during this tune, as well as the last tune, which was done on EFI Live (I beleive), which was then programmed into the Predator Tuner under a "custom tune" label/heading.

WHAT is going on here, or is it just something shorted out in the instrument cluster board circuitry??

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

If your tuner can't figure this out, the fix is to definitely get a new tuner. Once they start doing their voodoo, its hard to know what's going on unless someone is plugged in to the car.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

It sounds like several hands have been in the pot over the years, so at this point someone experienced will have to take a close look at the current tune. Without scanning the PCM and reviewing the tune, anything else we post here would just be a guess.

dailydriver

Yes, thanks.

Eventually, I will have it re-flashed at a dealer, and then start from square one, dumping the Diablosport (and ANY other hand-held, 'canned' tuners), and getting a proper, ground up, EFI Live, or HP Tuners tune from someone who is SURE of what they are doing.

But until I either go heads, cam, long tubes (like everyone else), or even better yet, go for a Mast, some other 'built' crate LS3, it just does NOT pay to drop $500.00 in order to get maybe what, 5-10 PEAK rwhp, IF that??

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I would definitely suggest to NOT pay that kind of money for a car that doesn't even have so much as LT headers yet, unless you plan to never modify anything else on the car but want every last ounce of power that can be squeezed from the stock setup. I would agree that 5-10rwhp will likely be the most you could hope for on a stock car. If you have any thought at all about wanting to do bigger modifications at some point, then hold off on the dyno tune for now.