plug indexing
12-28-2014, 08:05 PM
#2
12-28-2014, 11:28 PM
#3
http://performanceunlimited.com/docu...degapping.html
12-29-2014, 05:59 AM
#4
No, I drill 'em directly below the tip. This is similar to side gapping, but, allows the kernel to form directly through the ground strap (electrode arm) with very little to restrict its' size. I think there is now a plug manufacturer that sell plugs w/ ground straps pre-drilled. Although, they aren't our preferred plug brand.
12-29-2014, 07:49 AM
#5
No, I drill 'em directly below the tip. This is similar to side gapping, but, allows the kernel to form directly through the ground strap (electrode arm) with very little to restrict its' size. I think there is now a plug manufacturer that sell plugs w/ ground straps pre-drilled. Although, they aren't our preferred plug brand.
12-29-2014, 07:53 AM
#6
LS1-450: For indexing NGK's what would be the process since they are a wedge type interference fit? They don't use washers like other brands. Are you just trying different plugs in different holes to see which ones end up facing down?
I like this side gapping idea. I have seen on an engine dyno where it gained 10hp. Does your drilling idea create enough surface are to do the same? I know the after market plugs that are doing this now are also widening out the ground strap so the hole in the center is the width of the electrode. It seems that on a stock strap there isn't enough width to get a very big drill bit in there. What size bit are you using.
Would you want to use a slightly hotter plug for this method as well. Say going from NGK TR6's to TR5's. The 5's being the stock heat range for the motor.
I like this side gapping idea. I have seen on an engine dyno where it gained 10hp. Does your drilling idea create enough surface are to do the same? I know the after market plugs that are doing this now are also widening out the ground strap so the hole in the center is the width of the electrode. It seems that on a stock strap there isn't enough width to get a very big drill bit in there. What size bit are you using.
Would you want to use a slightly hotter plug for this method as well. Say going from NGK TR6's to TR5's. The 5's being the stock heat range for the motor.
12-29-2014, 09:18 AM
#7
I don't have pics. It's a 1/16" bit. Just put plug in vise w/ ground strap up & drill through in-line w/ electrode.
LS1-450: For indexing NGK's what would be the process since they are a wedge type interference fit? They don't use washers like other brands. Are you just trying different plugs in different holes to see which ones end up facing down?
Would you want to use a slightly hotter plug for this method as well. Say going from NGK TR6's to TR5's. The 5's being the stock heat range for the motor.
Would you want to use a slightly hotter plug for this method as well. Say going from NGK TR6's to TR5's. The 5's being the stock heat range for the motor.
-I don't. Would suggest using whatever plug that has been tested here as the best heat range for your set up. We use TR6's for our head/cam/intake/ram air set up. (Ignore the details in my signature. Guys come in here to scout the car. So, I don't display the actual details).
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12-29-2014, 10:33 AM
#8
I don't have pics. It's a 1/16" bit. Just put plug in vise w/ ground strap up & drill through in-line w/ electrode.
-Indexing washers are required. Can buy from Summit/Jegs.
-I don't. Would suggest using whatever plug that has been tested here as the best heat range for your set up. We use TR6's for our head/cam/intake/ram air set up. (Ignore the details in my signature. Guys come in here to scout the car. So, I don't display the actual details).
-Indexing washers are required. Can buy from Summit/Jegs.
-I don't. Would suggest using whatever plug that has been tested here as the best heat range for your set up. We use TR6's for our head/cam/intake/ram air set up. (Ignore the details in my signature. Guys come in here to scout the car. So, I don't display the actual details).
12-29-2014, 10:42 AM
#9
I posted this in the Advanced Tech section and was wondering your take on it.
I almost exclusively use TR6's gapped at .040" now on all the cars I do. I go one heat range colder due to DCR and timing. I am finding many stock LS2 and 3 combos detonate with stock timing tables. Going to 6's usually takes care of it and I can run a little more timing. I have been doing it with cam only cars as well. It seems to me that I may be better off running the hotter 55's at say .050"-.055" gap. If I am looking at this from a DCR or cylinder pressure angle. It seems that going with a later IVO will need a hotter plug and less fuel to make the same tq with the loss of DCR. I also remember way back in the distributor and digital ignition days running the most powerful MSD I could find and running spark gaps up to .060". I am sure the individual coils we have now put out a ton more voltage. In the end I am looking to find what is going to make the most tq and efficient burn in most driving conditions. More max power would be nice as well. Has anyone experimented with this on the dyno? The track is cool but hardly scientific.
I almost exclusively use TR6's gapped at .040" now on all the cars I do. I go one heat range colder due to DCR and timing. I am finding many stock LS2 and 3 combos detonate with stock timing tables. Going to 6's usually takes care of it and I can run a little more timing. I have been doing it with cam only cars as well. It seems to me that I may be better off running the hotter 55's at say .050"-.055" gap. If I am looking at this from a DCR or cylinder pressure angle. It seems that going with a later IVO will need a hotter plug and less fuel to make the same tq with the loss of DCR. I also remember way back in the distributor and digital ignition days running the most powerful MSD I could find and running spark gaps up to .060". I am sure the individual coils we have now put out a ton more voltage. In the end I am looking to find what is going to make the most tq and efficient burn in most driving conditions. More max power would be nice as well. Has anyone experimented with this on the dyno? The track is cool but hardly scientific.
12-29-2014, 02:37 PM
#10
I posted this in the Advanced Tech section and was wondering your take on it.
I almost exclusively use TR6's gapped at .040" now on all the cars I do. I go one heat range colder due to DCR and timing. I am finding many stock LS2 and 3 combos detonate with stock timing tables. Going to 6's usually takes care of it and I can run a little more timing. I have been doing it with cam only cars as well. It seems to me that I may be better off running the hotter 55's at say .050"-.055" gap. If I am looking at this from a DCR or cylinder pressure angle. It seems that going with a later IVO will need a hotter plug and less fuel to make the same tq with the loss of DCR. I also remember way back in the distributor and digital ignition days running the most powerful MSD I could find and running spark gaps up to .060". I am sure the individual coils we have now put out a ton more voltage. In the end I am looking to find what is going to make the most tq and efficient burn in most driving conditions. More max power would be nice as well. Has anyone experimented with this on the dyno? The track is cool but hardly scientific.
I almost exclusively use TR6's gapped at .040" now on all the cars I do. I go one heat range colder due to DCR and timing. I am finding many stock LS2 and 3 combos detonate with stock timing tables. Going to 6's usually takes care of it and I can run a little more timing. I have been doing it with cam only cars as well. It seems to me that I may be better off running the hotter 55's at say .050"-.055" gap. If I am looking at this from a DCR or cylinder pressure angle. It seems that going with a later IVO will need a hotter plug and less fuel to make the same tq with the loss of DCR. I also remember way back in the distributor and digital ignition days running the most powerful MSD I could find and running spark gaps up to .060". I am sure the individual coils we have now put out a ton more voltage. In the end I am looking to find what is going to make the most tq and efficient burn in most driving conditions. More max power would be nice as well. Has anyone experimented with this on the dyno? The track is cool but hardly scientific.
When we had EFI Live, we could log everything & set tables accordingly. What you are asking is routinely part of any dyno tune. Don't know if those specific conditions have been tested, but the tune is set up to the max allowable hp/tq without pre-detonation. The PCM has far more tunable variables than an MSD ignition. Really have to see the software to know how many different variables are programmable.
12-29-2014, 02:45 PM
#11
Nope. Have done it for years without issue.
When we had EFI Live, we could log everything & set tables accordingly. What you are asking is routinely part of any dyno tune. Don't know if those specific conditions have been tested, but the tune is set up to the max allowable hp/tq without pre-detonation. The PCM has far more tunable variables than an MSD ignition. Really have to see the software to know how many different variables are programmable.
When we had EFI Live, we could log everything & set tables accordingly. What you are asking is routinely part of any dyno tune. Don't know if those specific conditions have been tested, but the tune is set up to the max allowable hp/tq without pre-detonation. The PCM has far more tunable variables than an MSD ignition. Really have to see the software to know how many different variables are programmable.
12-30-2014, 07:24 AM
#13
Maybe the next thing to try is to side gap the ground strap & then fork it. This would have a similar effect as the drilled hole w/ the side benefit of not having to perfectly drill a hole on center.
By fork it I mean "like a forked tongue," split the end of the ground strap to around 1/32" deep or so.
12-30-2014, 09:32 AM
#14
Maybe the next thing to try is to side gap the ground strap & then fork it. This would have a similar effect as the drilled hole w/ the side benefit of not having to perfectly drill a hole on center.
By fork it I mean "like a forked tongue," split the end of the ground strap to around 1/32" deep or so.
By fork it I mean "like a forked tongue," split the end of the ground strap to around 1/32" deep or so.
12-30-2014, 09:39 AM
#16
12-30-2014, 09:49 AM
#17
12-30-2014, 09:56 AM
#18
Thanks for hitting us with some "old school" racer tech. I am going to work on this when I get home and let you all know how it went. I will use the above listed data tables to post results with.
I am looking at Summit. Which indexing washers do you use. I am assuming the tapered 14mm brass ones but from which company?
I am looking at Summit. Which indexing washers do you use. I am assuming the tapered 14mm brass ones but from which company?
Last edited by Pray; 12-30-2014 at 10:03 AM.
