pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

I need some help : My first project for LS-1 Tech members, this year, is a replacement Alternator.

What is the most common case size ?
What is the most common failure mode ?
What would be the most Horse Power output requested ?

Those who would like to help, may get one to test !

Lance

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Voltage regulator failed on the alternator from a 4th Gen 2000 Firehawk.Firehawk.
It was repaired and is on my 91 RS.

A friend has a 2001 Vette, alternator has noisy bearings & excessive play.

Only two issues I've seen first hand.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi and THANKS : The first problem has been addressed by our current product, bearing size increased and better grade bearing.
The second : There would be an EXTERNAL controller required by a PMG/PMM motor.

The CS-130 ?

What HP would you require ?

Lance

8.Lug

I'm guessing you're not from America. We use Amps to rate our alternators, not HP or Watts.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, "8" your answer states you have less than " 8" ".

I would like to know, one with a more correct answer, who would enjoy the ability to test one ?

Lance, BTW James Watt just "rolled over" (circa 1736)

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

To my knowledge the factory alternator seems adequate amp/hp wise for my uses. What am i missing?

A good cost effective electric steering set up that eliminated the power steering pump might be of interest if it could use shelf parts and retro-fit to the older LS cars like 4th gens and so on. It would of course have to show an hp gain for most to have value for it. I have no idea if that is practical.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi BB, you can request more information, the GM 2007 Saturn "BAS Hybrid".

The GM Malibu, the BAS Hybrid, had the problem of a bad Battery Pack @ 36 volts, thus recalled.

My Star Motor design operates at the normal 14 volt level.
This is due to Rear Earth Magnets in the Armature AND ALSO in the Stator Group.
This same use of a Rear Earth Magnet is what allows the IGN-1A coil to be so powerful.

My HP is 40 thought that would be RPM dependent ?

What is your thought ?

Lance

bigsticksupra

iTrader: (3)

put a truck alternator in and you're done.

that is my thought

8.Lug

What the hell are you on about Pantera?

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

HI, I was hoping to find some here to test this device, the ONE'S here with Scientific Method.

I have BAJA racers with LS engine local, I need others in ADVERSE areas.

Lance

S2KIWI

I've seen a few where the windings have completely delaminated/fallen to bits.

I'd love a slightly larger alternator than what I'm running now, in order to run a more serious inverter in the car. 160A (one of the biggest GM car/LS sized ones available) is probably enough for now though. Only issue is I can barely fit the 160A GXP alternator with dry sump pump and remote electric AC wherever we can jam it in next month.

Initial plan was to use inverter + larger 2nd battery external to run a prius electronic AC and alternating with 240VDC oil warmer in pits if I'm not able to fit a generator or track power for a particular outing. Now design will be 12VDC Air Con and the oil warmer. It'll put a decent load on the system either way.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

HI, from the "states".

You may know Richard Green, Green Brothers Racing ?

My engineering states about 400 AMPS, 3500 KW. (same frame)

The invertor is NOT required with my design.
This is part of the control of the PMG/PMM.

I would like your help ?
Would you be able to test this item, "down under" ?
I know money is "dear" there due to the Exchange Rate, this item when fitted, should increase fuel millage about 30%.

The Saturn BAS ALT @ 115 .lbs/ft used a "slip ring" design with Brushes, how QUAINT !

Lance

HappySalesman

iTrader: (3)

Your thread/posts bring about a lot of questions.

First and foremost, what's wrong with the factory LS alternator? Or even the truck alt?

For anything other than a multi-battery, multi-amplifier, competition audio setup, why would you need a 400 amp alternator?

Your math doesn't make sense either. a 400 amp output does not equal 3500 KW. Hell, 3500 watts is only 240 amps (both at 14.4v). I understand english likely isn't your first language, but your posts are erratic and somewhat nonsensical, making it hard to understand and carry a discussion.

S2KIWI

Hello Lance,

Anyone here who at least appreciates 'rotangs' as they are colloquially referred to has heard of Green Brothers Racing It's a small country, so everyone knows everyone and how you work. They do the Lords work with rotary engines.
Have spent many of my motorised years in the superbike autox/road racing /underground scene, so am relatively new to the car side of things and have not met Richard personally yet, likely will in future. I enjoy cars as they are a bigger engineering challenge and the results are just as enjoyable in a different way, plus its safer and less control hindrance to share the experience with someone else.

Thank you - it's an honour to be offered to develop this, I have been looking for someone to cover some ideas with directly along such a line - potentially a proposition which may make this more even viable for you to offer to end users in large numbers and a way to work out the money side of things.

Also time is important - Feb is the final month of a four year build with a large volume of work to finish in the car including full electrical wiring, scheduled to be undertaken over next month. Then it goes public with quite a number of world firsts with already in this build - perhaps there is another to tack to that list.

Isn't 400A @ 12V (or 14.4 or wherever you wish to measure) ~4800W? I guess you apply de-rating/losses to this figure. Interested in those numbers. I presume this is water cooled if same frame size?
Do have some experience with design for belt driven stationary engine applications, am a little concerned there may be an issues trying to pull 5-6kW off a single small diameter alternator pulley, assuming that is the case.

Sorry, should have clarified G8 GXP 160A aka our HSV GTS alternator. Likely too the same slip ring cheapie though knowing GM..
I believe with the original BCM/ECU and some hacking, the original G8 alternator could be remotely switched though.

Will fire you a PM tonight/your morning. Cheers!



In my case running the electronic AC system with much other load is pushing things already to the edge (160A), certainly not enough to run a 500W oil heater probe to reduce warm up times, without battery thrashing even while running, I really want to avoid carting a noisy *** generator and more crap, when the car has a damn 'generator' inside it already that warms it up even faster after some pre-heating of the oil.. Bringing an extra, larger battery which can plug into the boot (where the standard battery is going anyway) for tandem pre-heat and starting duty is far less hassle, more reliable and less costly than a generator. It can also be re-charged when cruising this way too, plus I can occasionally use the AC on battery alone this way if needed for a quick cool off - convertible tops suck in the heat. I can get away with a smaller battery than before for normal on-track use also.

Sometimes at the drags here (still more of a course/climb car), cars can sit in the queue for quite some time when it's really busy, so things can actually being to cool off significantly between runs. Idling forever is not going to happen. Extra oil volume is a help here though but still with enough wind in our cooler nights, it doesn't last for ever.. Being able to fire the engine up for a short period of time and warm the oil and water + engine to safer temperature, vastly quicker than idling trying to heat a few gallons of oil with minimal heat input, without ******* around with a generator or extra battery, is useful. It saves me hassle and time. Same when sitting around at events, e.g. crash cleanup, or during road racing/hill climb/remote non track events, or having to start somewhere out of the ordinary, e.g. a late night start after visiting a friend in a remote area.

So with a solution from Pantera, I can kill two birds with one stone and have the best of both worlds, without a crappy chinese inverter, battery drain and the rest of the issues associated. It's really about convenience.

8.Lug

Holy wall of text. For starters, the electrical system in a car is not actually 12v, it's between 13.8 and 14.4 volts depending on load. Under heavy load, you can expect it to be at 14.4. This is the voltage you use to do your math. So, no, 400amps is not 4800watts, it's closer to 5800. And 500watts is only 35amps.

Going back to the "rare earth magnet" comment - the reason why alternators don't use those types of magnets is because the internal voltage pulses are very peaky which creates tons of electrical interference and can wreak havoc with the electronics in the rest of the car. When people are tuning their cars, the last thing someone needs to worry about is the alternator playing a role.

I'm still trying to figure out what the point of this thread is...

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

YES, I was incorrect.
I agree with the "experts" Cac's. and yours.
I agree with a Stator Cooling requirement.

I created a 800.lb/ft (400) HP motor that used a water cooled stator.
The system used a separate Glycol Coolant heat exchanger.
This motor was fitted into an "18 Wheeler"
This was an IR development program.
The Armature was the size/shape of a USA Foot Ball.

YES, the drive is a PROBLEM, Author@Progearweb is a fellow team member.
This is a specialty field in his knowledge, the drive work.

Remember : Torque x RPM = HP.
The drive is engineered in HP output required.
The belt life should be OK, thus NOT de-rated.

You could fit an intercooler, one to cool the stator/heat oil.
The "back" EMF is EASY for me to change, just the timing of the stator groupe.

The Li-Ion battery I can make OR a COTS item can be had.

NOW for "*", I worked with engineers at SY-17, one such project was EMI shielding. ( Holy Prius ! )

Lance, BTW you have a Patent Claim, the use of the PMG to "heat" oil is GREAT.

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

Your opening post & question indicated a simple upgrade of the original stock GM alternator.

Most people on this forum have a F-body or GM truck with an LS engine.

F-body guys upgrade to the larger 160 amp truck alternator.

Many trucks already have it or get upgraded to the 160 amp unit.

Your follow up posts indicate you are looking at some sort of monster custom made one of a kind alternator.

I doubt you will find anybody here who has done such a thing.

MY_2K_Z

iTrader: (1)

I wish I new more about what causes these alternators to fail. The alternator I put in my turbo car failed this past week after only 3 months. Is it the high rpm? Drawing to many amps? Idk it saw 7800 rpms a couple times so I assumed it was the rpm.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi Paul, yes I am learning much from the responses.
The first bit of knowledge is about the "frame size" needed to fit common LS member requirements.
Thus the current casting pattern is correct.
This is the one that I have made in the past without brushes with a 20% increase in efficiency.

The next step is to add magnets into the armature/stator group.

The "MY_2K_Z" report could be of great help to get the pulley diameter correct.
I ask him to send me this item, I will inspect it, provide a report.
I will repair this, at small cost, upgrade the output and then return.

Would you, MY_2K_Z, like me to do this for your needs ?

Lance, BTW for those who would ONLY want to use my new PMG for current output = OK

S2KIWI

Hi Lance, I sent you a PM last week, please check your inbox Keen to get this on the road. Happy to discuss some parts publicly here as needed.

Also I have much more clearance behind the alternator than I thought, nearly 2/3rds the length of the original 160A. Heat sheild and away we go.