true dual question
03-16-2005, 10:30 PM
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true dual question I'm thinking about getting pacesetter LT's and the tsp's true dual exhaust (with sweet-thunder mufflers, and high-flowing cats, for emissions purposes).
i know i want the true duals to go over the axle, for clearance reasons.. what else do i need to buy to get the TD's out of the back, not just dumped after the axle ? i want my exhaust to exit in the 2 bumper exit cutouts that are made for it..
so.. what else would i need?
i know i want the true duals to go over the axle, for clearance reasons.. what else do i need to buy to get the TD's out of the back, not just dumped after the axle ? i want my exhaust to exit in the 2 bumper exit cutouts that are made for it..
so.. what else would i need?
03-16-2005, 10:53 PM
#2
You need to be doing a completely custom setup, don't get the tsp duals. Esp if you are going to have cats put in. Going over the axle is complicated, you will need panhard bar relocation kit, as well as lots of money for fabrication. Although I don't think it looks bad at all to have nothing in the cutouts, jmo though.
03-16-2005, 11:06 PM
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you can get the bassani tru-dual and modify to fit the headers. https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...hlight=bassani
03-16-2005, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mrr23
you can get the bassani tru-dual and modify to fit the headers. https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...hlight=bassani
why does this cost so much money?
i mean, coming down to the basics, this is just supposed to be 2 stainless (have to be stainless.) pipes. welded together, with 2 mufflers.
why does this cost a thousand bucks to make?
03-16-2005, 11:38 PM
#6
Originally Posted by firechicken2k
that looks too much like a catback to me, one muffler and way too many bends in the pipes.. also, sorta overpriced.
why does this cost so much money?
i mean, coming down to the basics, this is just supposed to be 2 stainless (have to be stainless.) pipes. welded together, with 2 mufflers.
why does this cost a thousand bucks to make?
why does this cost so much money?
i mean, coming down to the basics, this is just supposed to be 2 stainless (have to be stainless.) pipes. welded together, with 2 mufflers.
why does this cost a thousand bucks to make?
03-16-2005, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Gloveperson
It's 2x as much piping as the TSP true dual system, and it involves suspension work.
i guess i'll just get quotes from local custom exhaust shops, on what itd cost to fabricate me a true dual exhaust (2 *straight* pipes, each with its own muffler. no pretzel shaped crap).
oh well.
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03-17-2005, 05:33 AM
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You can run 3" true duals with some cutouts under the car then run some 2.5" pipes under the axle. The clearance is ok then or you can run 2.5 all the way. Sweet thunders are a great sounding muffler.
03-17-2005, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ZR2877
You can run 3" true duals with some cutouts under the car then run some 2.5" pipes under the axle. The clearance is ok then or you can run 2.5 all the way. Sweet thunders are a great sounding muffler.
how much clearance would be lost? the car's not lowered.. since there are people lowering their car by an 1" and more, i'm starting to think this might be ok..hmm
and who sells a 2.5 exhaust (complete. starts at the headers, includes my sweet thunder mufflers, and exits out the back of the car) ? any idea?
03-17-2005, 08:58 AM
#10
Buy the TSP kit and have an exhaust shop extend it to the back under the axles. Make sure they put a flange on their so you can take it apart if you need to do work on the rear or swap it out with a 12 bolt. Also saves weight at the track
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ght=under+axle
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ght=under+axle
03-17-2005, 10:42 AM
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Yep, under the axle will work fine. I've got Lane's duals on the way, and I'm taking them under the axle and out the back. Much cheaper, no additional clearance lost....sounds good to me. Like they said, put flanges before the axle so the rear part could be removed, and you're all set.
03-17-2005, 01:28 PM
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OK I am going 2.5" true duals over the axle. You do not need to do suspension work if you are running 2.5" over. If you do 3", then you need to relocate the panhard bar. My setup will run both pipes on the pass side of the tranny tunnel. Then up and over the axle. The parts you will need, well, let me list the parts I have acquired. The guy that is going to build the xhaust for me said this is enough.
X pipe or H pipe-I am using a magnaflow X
I have 3 four foot sections of straight pipe
I have 5 mandrel u-bends, I need four more
sweet thunder mufflers
high flow cats- these will be v-flanged so I can swap the off road pipes in and out
And a set of tips
This style of duals would offer the most clearance. TSP duals do no offer good clearance as compared to this. People have run the duals over the axle, with one pipe going over each side. However, the pipe on the drivers side comes really close to the fuel lines. So the pipe will need to be wrapped. Thats also the thing with TSP style duals, the exhaust comes close to the fuel lines, in which then the lines need to be flipped.
And yes, the style of duals I am going for will set me back at about $1K. Thats including the labor, because I havent learned how to weld yet
X pipe or H pipe-I am using a magnaflow X
I have 3 four foot sections of straight pipe
I have 5 mandrel u-bends, I need four more
sweet thunder mufflers
high flow cats- these will be v-flanged so I can swap the off road pipes in and out
And a set of tips
This style of duals would offer the most clearance. TSP duals do no offer good clearance as compared to this. People have run the duals over the axle, with one pipe going over each side. However, the pipe on the drivers side comes really close to the fuel lines. So the pipe will need to be wrapped. Thats also the thing with TSP style duals, the exhaust comes close to the fuel lines, in which then the lines need to be flipped.
And yes, the style of duals I am going for will set me back at about $1K. Thats including the labor, because I havent learned how to weld yet
03-17-2005, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mrr23
you can get the bassani tru-dual and modify to fit the headers. https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...hlight=bassani
03-17-2005, 02:29 PM
#15
Originally Posted by psykoTA
OK I am going 2.5" true duals over the axle. You do not need to do suspension work if you are running 2.5" over. If you do 3", then you need to relocate the panhard bar. My setup will run both pipes on the pass side of the tranny tunnel. Then up and over the axle. The parts you will need, well, let me list the parts I have acquired. The guy that is going to build the xhaust for me said this is enough.
X pipe or H pipe-I am using a magnaflow X
I have 3 four foot sections of straight pipe
I have 5 mandrel u-bends, I need four more
sweet thunder mufflers
high flow cats- these will be v-flanged so I can swap the off road pipes in and out
And a set of tips
This style of duals would offer the most clearance. TSP duals do no offer good clearance as compared to this. People have run the duals over the axle, with one pipe going over each side. However, the pipe on the drivers side comes really close to the fuel lines. So the pipe will need to be wrapped. Thats also the thing with TSP style duals, the exhaust comes close to the fuel lines, in which then the lines need to be flipped.
And yes, the style of duals I am going for will set me back at about $1K. Thats including the labor, because I havent learned how to weld yet
X pipe or H pipe-I am using a magnaflow X
I have 3 four foot sections of straight pipe
I have 5 mandrel u-bends, I need four more
sweet thunder mufflers
high flow cats- these will be v-flanged so I can swap the off road pipes in and out
And a set of tips
This style of duals would offer the most clearance. TSP duals do no offer good clearance as compared to this. People have run the duals over the axle, with one pipe going over each side. However, the pipe on the drivers side comes really close to the fuel lines. So the pipe will need to be wrapped. Thats also the thing with TSP style duals, the exhaust comes close to the fuel lines, in which then the lines need to be flipped.
And yes, the style of duals I am going for will set me back at about $1K. Thats including the labor, because I havent learned how to weld yet
03-17-2005, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Gloveperson
It's 2x as much piping as the TSP true dual system, and it involves suspension work.
03-17-2005, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by psykoTA
I like how all the piping is run, but the fact that it uses one muffler makes it a catback. If bassani had made it with 2 mufflers, then it would something worth looking at.
Last edited by mrr23; 03-17-2005 at 08:40 PM.
03-17-2005, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by firechicken2k
its 2x as much piping because they make a pretzel-shaped exhaust. it looks like crap, quite frankly. i cant imagine the flow being good after traveling down those pipes.
i guess i'll just get quotes from local custom exhaust shops, on what itd cost to fabricate me a true dual exhaust (2 *straight* pipes, each with its own muffler. no pretzel shaped crap).
oh well.
i guess i'll just get quotes from local custom exhaust shops, on what itd cost to fabricate me a true dual exhaust (2 *straight* pipes, each with its own muffler. no pretzel shaped crap).
oh well.
Originally Posted by mrr23
ok here's the dyno results. the biggest thing you'll notice is that as rpms go up, the gap keeps widening. this tru-dual is on a stock car with only add on is slp airlid and k/n filter. dyno runs before on macedo motorsports graphs, i had the lid and filter on. now with more power added later, the exhaust will continue to grow with it. not become a restriction later. some will look at it as not any better than every other single exhaust out there. but, look at the end result. the more you add to it, the better it can handle it. remember my track results showed .2 and 2 mph NA and .3 and 3 mph with 200 n2o added to it.
first graph: this one is second gear from 10 (700 rpm) mph up reason for doing this is to try and get the lowest rpm reading possible. and in the 2000 up f-bodies, you can put the gear selector in 2nd gear and it'll start off in 2nd. no downshift. as you can see, the winpep7 didn't start reading until about 2300 still. bad thing about winpep7, it'll throw out data if there is too much rpm vs speed difference. basically TC slip. you'll notice where the converter starts to reach stall speed, it starts reading.
for repeatability here's every run made.
now, vinci still uses the original dynojet software. you'll notice on these graphs start at 700 rpm. the older DOS based software isn't as susceptible to TC slip. it has somewhat of a brain. and you can see the torque stall reading. kinda shows the stock stall around 1200 rpm. you'll notice the curve starts the upward trend about 2100. and that's where the winpep7 starts recording at. the main reason why vinci won't upgrade to windows based operating winpep7 program.
again 2nd gear start. to give the broadest rpm range possible. also, i didn't have a baseline on vinci's dyno before adding the bassani tru-dual. these are back to back run. trying to get repeatability.
and here's a 3rd gear run. again this is back to back. not a before/after.
first graph: this one is second gear from 10 (700 rpm) mph up reason for doing this is to try and get the lowest rpm reading possible. and in the 2000 up f-bodies, you can put the gear selector in 2nd gear and it'll start off in 2nd. no downshift. as you can see, the winpep7 didn't start reading until about 2300 still. bad thing about winpep7, it'll throw out data if there is too much rpm vs speed difference. basically TC slip. you'll notice where the converter starts to reach stall speed, it starts reading.
for repeatability here's every run made.
now, vinci still uses the original dynojet software. you'll notice on these graphs start at 700 rpm. the older DOS based software isn't as susceptible to TC slip. it has somewhat of a brain. and you can see the torque stall reading. kinda shows the stock stall around 1200 rpm. you'll notice the curve starts the upward trend about 2100. and that's where the winpep7 starts recording at. the main reason why vinci won't upgrade to windows based operating winpep7 program.
again 2nd gear start. to give the broadest rpm range possible. also, i didn't have a baseline on vinci's dyno before adding the bassani tru-dual. these are back to back run. trying to get repeatability.
and here's a 3rd gear run. again this is back to back. not a before/after.
03-17-2005, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by firechicken2k
that looks too much like a catback to me, one muffler and way too many bends in the pipes.. also, sorta overpriced.
why does this cost so much money?
i mean, coming down to the basics, this is just supposed to be 2 stainless (have to be stainless.) pipes. welded together, with 2 mufflers.
why does this cost a thousand bucks to make?
why does this cost so much money?
i mean, coming down to the basics, this is just supposed to be 2 stainless (have to be stainless.) pipes. welded together, with 2 mufflers.
why does this cost a thousand bucks to make?
03-17-2005, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mrr23
a catback is defined as everything past the cats. so, yes you are correct. one muffler or two. what does it matter? system was designed to maintain maximum ground clearance. using two mufflers under the car, will decrease the ground clearance. but, we all know that.
If you mounted two sweet thunders side by side, you really are not goig to lose that much clearance. Is there a reqirement somewhere that states that you have to use two large mufflers. Why not mount two sweet thunders, or flo-pro twisters, or even bullets in the location I said? This bassani tru dual system would be more likely to sell, if you used 2 mufflers, and made it simpler. Basically copy what everyone is doing to there own ride. i.e. no pretzel like bends. My father always said "Dont over-engineer it".
And the fact that it is one muffler is a let down. I mean, for the first time (that I know of) there is a bolt-on 'true dual' system. However, its not offered to be able to bolt-up to longtubes, and it really isnt true duals without 2 mufflers. The entire system is very nice. Though, the ball was dropped with the one muffler design.