ack - Spohn Engine Stands / Solid Mounts
11-27-2005, 10:53 PM
#1
ack - Spohn Engine Stands / Solid Mounts - bad set?? I think I got a bad set. Who's got experience with these? I took some pics because I want to make sure I'm thinking right before going through the hassle of sending them back. (plus I'll have some documentation in case they tell me they're fine...) Got 'em from a sponsor, I haven't contacted them yet, just wanting to make sure I'm on the right track. Although I can't imagine they are supposed to hold the engine in that crooked. I had to fool with it quite a bit just to get all the holes to line up, and then the plates didn't want to sit flat against the engine at all. Snugged all the bolts down to flatten everything out, and it's just not right.
When looking at the front, sitting where the radiator would be, sighting down the crankshaft center line, the engine is cocked counterclockwise. A straight edge across the valley cover is an inch lower at the frame rail mounting point on the passenger side vs. the driver's side.
When looking straight down on it, it's counterclockwise, off about 1/4", maybe a bit more. At the tranny tailshaft it will be set over about 1/2" from where it should be, which can't be good for the driveshaft with it cocked like that. Pinion angle can't fix that...
When sitting on the driver's side of the engine, about where the fender would be, the tail of the engine is cocked up in the air. I had to put a bolt under a 4' level to get the engine to show level, across the valley. (at the front of the engine) For reference, I had to put a bolt at the tranny end, when I set the level across the k-member mounting points to the frame rail. In other words, if I had leveled the k-member for this exercise, I would have to put 2 bolts under the front of the level when it was sitting on the valley.
First set of pics - front view.
Next set - top view.
Last set - side view.
It's off in every axis, best I can tell.
When looking at the front, sitting where the radiator would be, sighting down the crankshaft center line, the engine is cocked counterclockwise. A straight edge across the valley cover is an inch lower at the frame rail mounting point on the passenger side vs. the driver's side.
When looking straight down on it, it's counterclockwise, off about 1/4", maybe a bit more. At the tranny tailshaft it will be set over about 1/2" from where it should be, which can't be good for the driveshaft with it cocked like that. Pinion angle can't fix that...
When sitting on the driver's side of the engine, about where the fender would be, the tail of the engine is cocked up in the air. I had to put a bolt under a 4' level to get the engine to show level, across the valley. (at the front of the engine) For reference, I had to put a bolt at the tranny end, when I set the level across the k-member mounting points to the frame rail. In other words, if I had leveled the k-member for this exercise, I would have to put 2 bolts under the front of the level when it was sitting on the valley.
First set of pics - front view.
Next set - top view.
Last set - side view.
It's off in every axis, best I can tell.
Last edited by John_D.; 11-27-2005 at 11:04 PM.
11-27-2005, 10:57 PM
#2
Here's the top view.
First 2 - straight edge on the timing cover, the 18" mark centered over the little hole in the middle of the upper half of the timing cover. On the passenger side it just about hits the far flange in front of the frame bolt hole. On the driver's side, it hits the metal around the hole. I had to slide it in toward the center a bit so the yardstick would sit flush against the timing cover, otherwise it was holding it off the cover a bit.
Last 3 - straight edge on the front of the crank pulley.
First 2 - straight edge on the timing cover, the 18" mark centered over the little hole in the middle of the upper half of the timing cover. On the passenger side it just about hits the far flange in front of the frame bolt hole. On the driver's side, it hits the metal around the hole. I had to slide it in toward the center a bit so the yardstick would sit flush against the timing cover, otherwise it was holding it off the cover a bit.
Last 3 - straight edge on the front of the crank pulley.
Last edited by John_D.; 11-27-2005 at 11:02 PM.
11-27-2005, 10:59 PM
#3
Last batch. Side view. I fiddled with the contrast trying to get the bubble to show in the level. It was exactly centered, and the level was turned the same way in both pictures so any slight outage in the accuracy of the level would be oriented the same in both measurements. (in other words I wasn't compounding/stacking any drift by turning the level opposite ways...)
11-28-2005, 12:09 AM
#4
I wouldn't trust it on just the k member like that and it should have a little bit of slack to where you can loosen the bolts jack up one side and tighten the bolts back down. Thats what i had to do with my solid motor mounts and one side is still about 1/8" lower at the oil pan.
11-28-2005, 01:33 AM
#5
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John, I have a factory K-member, Spohn mounts, and a bare block sitting out in the shop right now. When the second-hand mounts arrived, I loosely bolted them to the K-member and all the holes into the K-member fit with zero issues.
The mounts appear to be perfectly symmetrical WRT the K-member as it sits, but I will throw that block on tomorrow and do some checking for my own peace of mind.
Regardless of the outcome here and elsewhere, I think you have answered your own questions: I know I wouldn't run mounts like you describe on my car, no way, no how!
Tony
Beaumont, Tx
The mounts appear to be perfectly symmetrical WRT the K-member as it sits, but I will throw that block on tomorrow and do some checking for my own peace of mind.
Regardless of the outcome here and elsewhere, I think you have answered your own questions: I know I wouldn't run mounts like you describe on my car, no way, no how!
Tony
Beaumont, Tx
11-28-2005, 04:56 PM
#7
Well so far, the response was an email (no phone on the site...) that said to call an 800 number for "install help".
That number belongs to Spec clutches however. They said they can't help me with a Spohn engine mount.
I looked up Spohn's tech support number but it's after hours for them now. I'll try tomorrow and see what happens.
That number belongs to Spec clutches however. They said they can't help me with a Spohn engine mount.
I looked up Spohn's tech support number but it's after hours for them now. I'll try tomorrow and see what happens.
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11-29-2005, 04:33 PM
#10
Originally Posted by Tony99SS
The mounts appear to be perfectly symmetrical WRT the K-member as it sits, but I will throw that block on tomorrow and do some checking for my own peace of mind.
I put the stockers back on, and everything lined up just right.
Also discovered that GM puts the engine about 1" closer to the passenger side, instead of dead center - maybe to offset for the driver's weight? That was driving me a little crazy in trying to get measurements pinned down, until I realized that. It didn't affect the level and square measurements shown in the pictures, but it did affect some other cross-checks I was doing.
11-29-2005, 04:36 PM
#11
Originally Posted by WILWAXU
Give Spohn a call. I have no doubt they will help you out.
Last contact today was an email with some measurements stated and an offer to send pictures of the measurements (the same ones posted here).
They say the parts are tacked in a jig, then final welded outside the jig, and there shouldn't be any way for it to be off. We'll see where it goes next...
11-30-2005, 09:18 AM
#12
Spohn was excellent about this. They told me that they sell a lot of these, and once in a great while, somebody has trouble with theirs, for no apparent reason. So they said they would replace them or let me return them, my choice. They were very helpful and understanding about the problem.
12-01-2005, 03:46 AM
#13
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i was thinking about doing this to my car...what do you guys with them think? any diff? and did you get new poly mounts for the tranny?
and john, are you going with a new set? whats up?
and john, are you going with a new set? whats up?
12-01-2005, 10:47 AM
#15
Originally Posted by RICEBURNER
...did you get new poly mounts for the tranny?
and john, are you going with a new set? whats up?
and john, are you going with a new set? whats up?
I did some more measuring and comparing last night. This time not with the engine and k-member, but just putting the stock stand/mount combo beside the solid mount, on a bench. The passenger one is great. The driver's side is a bit taller, and the top plate is shifted over enough that even if I was to slot the holes all the way through to the edge of the plate they still won't match the stock setup. Spohn told me that a replacement would most likely be exactly like what I already have, so I'm just going to return mine.
I would have liked to save the 11 lbs too, if I could have run them.
12-02-2005, 11:45 PM
#16
Originally Posted by John_D.
Spohn was excellent about this. They told me that they sell a lot of these, and once in a great while, somebody has trouble with theirs, for no apparent reason. So they said they would replace them or let me return them, my choice. They were very helpful and understanding about the problem.
