Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
#1
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Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
Well heck, after 2 hours of piddling with magnets and clothes pins I still can't keep the back 2 lifters on the driver side up enough to clear the cam, they keep falling maybe .025", just enough to keep the back of the cam from clearing. The 4 lobes clear ok, but then no amount of work or leveraging will keep them up high enough to proceed. When I spin the cam those 2 magnets move ever so slightly. Anybody run into this yet?
I ordered a pair of JPR tools just in case I can't get this licked with old tech.
I ordered a pair of JPR tools just in case I can't get this licked with old tech.
#2
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Re: Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
If you have good magnets you should be able to keep those lifters up high enough. I've worked on some ls1's with really loose lifters and while its a lot more work to make sure every magnet has the lifter up as high as it can get, its always worked for me.
The JPR tool will be the easiest way though.
The JPR tool will be the easiest way though.
#3
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Re: Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
I convinced now I'm hitting the lifter tray and not the lifters. I can see both those magnets move just a bit simultaneously, when I hit the obstruction. I've tried every which way to get those magnets positioned so there is no slack and the lifters are at the absolute highest point, but no luck at all. 2 hours just on this one thing. Oh well, on to the springs I guess, hopefully the jpr tool will be here on wednesday.
#4
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Re: Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
Got it!! Nothing like a fresh shower, half slap of BBQ ribs, and encouragement from JMX... ..went back outside and it slid out like butta.....
I'm going ahead with the JPR tool though, had enough of the magnet gig to last a lifetime....on the way out some of them were hard to get out and all I could think about was the magnet part popping out.....
I'm going ahead with the JPR tool though, had enough of the magnet gig to last a lifetime....on the way out some of them were hard to get out and all I could think about was the magnet part popping out.....
#5
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Re: Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
I fought with this exact situation myself, but it wasn't the back lifters. I guess this means you can't even get the cam part way out? I had the same feeling myself about it being the lifter retainers because when I had someone try to remove the cam I could feel two adjacent magnets move at the same time when the obstruction was hit. This is what led me to conclude the cam must be hitting the retainer and NOT the lifters. Funny thing is I was able to get my cam out about six inches (4 lobes exposed) before I encountered the obstruction. I thought that was weird because I figured it should hit the obstruction right away, not after I got it part way out. I still havn't found out why it only came out part way and then stopped. JMX told me he didn't think the cam was hitting the retainer because it doesn't extend down far enough which seems to make sense, but I still couldn't figure out why I could feel that bump on TWO adjacent magnets at the same time when the obstruction was hit if it wasn't the retainer being hit. I tried a bunch of things too, none of which worked. I thought maybe the weight of the lifter on the ones I could feel the cam hitting was causing the magnet to extend far enough to hit the cam lobe. I put some Crazy Glue on those magnets to keep them from extending after I installed them. That didn't help. I tried compressing the magnets after I installed them on top of the lifers to be sure they were pulled fully clear of the cam lobes as the cam was withdrawn. That didn't help either. It was only when I used the JPR tool that the cam cam out and I mean it jumped out like it knew where it was going. No resistance, no snags. I still don't know what the problem was with the magnet method, but I'm now convinced it was a lifter and NOT the retainers after the JPR tool made it so easy once I installed it, but I can't prove that. I know that the tool is expensive, but I justified it because I was doing the work myself so I saved a lot on the labor and I have the satisfaction of knowing the job was done right because I cleaned every nut, bolt, screw and mating surface myself and tightened them all down. That way I know all the fasteners are tight and none are cross-threaded. That knowledge alone was worth the cost of the JPR tool to me.
#6
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Re: Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
I fought with this exact situation myself, but it wasn't the back lifters. I guess this means you can even get the cam part way out? I had the same feeling myself about it being the lifter retainer because when I had some one try to remove the cam I could feel two adjacent magnets move at the same time when the obstruction was hit. This is what led me to conclude the cam must be hitting the retainer and NOT the lifters. Funny thing is I was able to get my cam out about six inches (4 lobes exposed) before I encountered the obstruction. I thought that was wierd because I figured it should hit the obstruction right away, not after I got it part way out. I still havn't found out why it only came out part way and then stopped. JMX told me he didn't think the cam was hitting the retainer because it doesn't extend down far enough which seems to make sense, but I still couldn't figure out why I could feel that bump on TWO adjacent magnets at the same time when the obstruction was hit if it wasn't the retainer being hit. I tried a bunch of things too, none of which worked. I thought maybe the weight of the lifter on the ones I could feel the cam hitting was causing the magnet to extend far enough to hit the cam lobe. I put some Crazy Glue on those magnets to keep them from extending after I installed them. That didn't help. I tried compressing the magnets after I installed them on top of the lifers to be sure they were pulled fully clear of the cam lobes as the cam was withdrawn. That didn't help either. It was only when I used the JPR tool that the cam cam out and I mean it jumped out like it knew where it was going. No resistance, no snags. I still don't know what the problem was with the magnet method, but I'm now convinced it was a lifter and NOT the retainers after the JPR tool made it so easy once I installed it, but I can't prove that. I know that's the tool is expensive, but I justified it because I was doing the work myself so I saved a lot on the labor and I have the satisfaction of knowing the job was done right because I cleaned every nut, bolt, screw and mating surface myself and tightened them all down. That way I know all the fasteners are tight and none are cross-threaded. That knowledge alone was worth the cost of the JPR tool to me.
Thanks for posting, I had sent you email earlier because I had the same problem, out 6" then bam....I agree on the JPR gig, that's a done deal for next time.
#7
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Re: Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
Ok Dave....Whats the new sekrit cam??? At least give me a chance to catch up first. Good luck on your new combo. I hope to be out there soon myself.
Phil
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#8
Re: Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
on the way out some of them were hard to get out and all I could think about was the magnet part popping out.....
Tommy
#9
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Re: Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
Ok Dave....Whats the new sekrit cam??? At least give me a chance to catch up first. Good luck on your new combo. I hope to be out there soon myself.
Phil
Phil
This one is a 225/223, .580/.564, 113lsa.
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Re: Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
I got lucky. Couldnt find the magnets, so I just risked it. The weird thing was the lifter would stay up with the old cam. Youd have to push them down with the pushrods. After the new cam went in the lifters would not stay up. Theyd follow the cam lobes. Weird.
Long story short, none of the lifters dropped into the oil pain.
Long story short, none of the lifters dropped into the oil pain.
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Re: Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
I got lucky. Couldnt find the magnets, so I just risked it. The weird thing was the lifter would stay up with the old cam. Youd have to push them down with the pushrods. After the new cam went in the lifters would not stay up. Theyd follow the cam lobes. Weird.
Long story short, none of the lifters dropped into the oil pain.
Long story short, none of the lifters dropped into the oil pain.
#12
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Re: Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
[quote
I wonder if aftermarket cams are ground on a smaller base circle thereby making the lift in the retainer too small for the retainer to catch it? So maybe the retainer-catching-lifter trick will work for only stock-sized cams.
[/quote]
They are, 99% of all Comp Cam ground cams for the LS1 have a 0.030" smaller base circle.
I wonder if aftermarket cams are ground on a smaller base circle thereby making the lift in the retainer too small for the retainer to catch it? So maybe the retainer-catching-lifter trick will work for only stock-sized cams.
[/quote]
They are, 99% of all Comp Cam ground cams for the LS1 have a 0.030" smaller base circle.
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Re: Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
on the way out some of them were hard to get out and all I could think about was the magnet part popping out.....
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Re: Back 2 lifters won't stay up for cam install
[quote
I wonder if aftermarket cams are ground on a smaller base circle thereby making the lift in the retainer too small for the retainer to catch it? So maybe the retainer-catching-lifter trick will work for only stock-sized cams.
I wonder if aftermarket cams are ground on a smaller base circle thereby making the lift in the retainer too small for the retainer to catch it? So maybe the retainer-catching-lifter trick will work for only stock-sized cams.
[/quote]
Only 030", well there goes my theory, LOL!