New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno
10-12-2003, 10:09 PM
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New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno I got the car back friday from Joe, who turned the car around really quickly so I could race at SLP day -- thanks Joe and JPR!
Joe replaced the heavily reworked ARE stage II heads with a set of his new design stage 2 heads, featuring his HDLV version 2 porting. They dynoed the car I believe 8 times to try and get it adjusted properly to the 42lb injectors, which the car was having some major problems with before. The heads are around 11.0:1 CR, doublesprings, running on 93 octane gas. Also installed yella terra rockers that I had purchased previously but was unable to get on the car because couldnt get enough preload. This is a full JPR motor now, 388 ci all-bore darton sleeved with a 242 595 112 single pattern lunati cam.
New Numbers:
478rwhp/454.5rwtq, old numbers were 455/446
(copy and paste, unless someone wants to rehost)
http://www24.brinkster.com/ezerner/ezdynonew.jpg
Now for the bad news --
I took the car to englishtown for SLP day, and had some problems and bad luck. First "pass", I was trying to watch another car from my car club run, and starting doing my burnout in first. Quick shifted to second, burnout good. Roll to starting line, and the car wont go into gear. Tried everything...Had to be pushed off the line, then towed into the pits. I do want to say thanks to the SLP guys there, although they will probably never read this, for helping out and offering to put the car on the lift and see if we could see what was wrong.
Anyhow, I hoped I had just smoked the clutch and once it cooled down it would go back into gear. Thats what happened, I went up for another pass, and I have to admit I was seriously nervous about the clutch so I kinda granny shifted down the track (after nailing the limiter in first), and ran an embarassing 12.1 @ 113 on a 1.65 60', raceweight 3616. I still thought the car would run much faster even with me not going all out on the shifting..seems like it should effortlessly do an 11, considering I was doing 11s@118 before just H/C. Some people from the club got the run on tape, and Im still blowing a lot of white-blue smoke out of the tailpipes...problem. Plus several people commented that it sounds like the car is "breaking up" when it gets in the upper rpm range.
We were going to do the LS6 oil management converstion, but Joe rushed through to get me the car back, and we were hoping the head change would solve the problem.
Anyhow, made one more pass, almost identical run to the first, including hitting the limiter on the 1-2, and a 1.69 60 (jeez!) and another 12.1. Needlessly to say, i was more than a little discouraged. I guess Im going to try and run cecil next week, but I wonder if I should just wait until everything is fixed correctly first.
Joe replaced the heavily reworked ARE stage II heads with a set of his new design stage 2 heads, featuring his HDLV version 2 porting. They dynoed the car I believe 8 times to try and get it adjusted properly to the 42lb injectors, which the car was having some major problems with before. The heads are around 11.0:1 CR, doublesprings, running on 93 octane gas. Also installed yella terra rockers that I had purchased previously but was unable to get on the car because couldnt get enough preload. This is a full JPR motor now, 388 ci all-bore darton sleeved with a 242 595 112 single pattern lunati cam.
New Numbers:
478rwhp/454.5rwtq, old numbers were 455/446
(copy and paste, unless someone wants to rehost)
http://www24.brinkster.com/ezerner/ezdynonew.jpg
Now for the bad news --
I took the car to englishtown for SLP day, and had some problems and bad luck. First "pass", I was trying to watch another car from my car club run, and starting doing my burnout in first. Quick shifted to second, burnout good. Roll to starting line, and the car wont go into gear. Tried everything...Had to be pushed off the line, then towed into the pits. I do want to say thanks to the SLP guys there, although they will probably never read this, for helping out and offering to put the car on the lift and see if we could see what was wrong.
Anyhow, I hoped I had just smoked the clutch and once it cooled down it would go back into gear. Thats what happened, I went up for another pass, and I have to admit I was seriously nervous about the clutch so I kinda granny shifted down the track (after nailing the limiter in first), and ran an embarassing 12.1 @ 113 on a 1.65 60', raceweight 3616. I still thought the car would run much faster even with me not going all out on the shifting..seems like it should effortlessly do an 11, considering I was doing 11s@118 before just H/C. Some people from the club got the run on tape, and Im still blowing a lot of white-blue smoke out of the tailpipes...problem. Plus several people commented that it sounds like the car is "breaking up" when it gets in the upper rpm range.
We were going to do the LS6 oil management converstion, but Joe rushed through to get me the car back, and we were hoping the head change would solve the problem.
Anyhow, made one more pass, almost identical run to the first, including hitting the limiter on the 1-2, and a 1.69 60 (jeez!) and another 12.1. Needlessly to say, i was more than a little discouraged. I guess Im going to try and run cecil next week, but I wonder if I should just wait until everything is fixed correctly first.
10-12-2003, 10:14 PM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno Oh...the two graphs are with cutout open (top) and through full exhaust (blue graph). This is through a moser 12 with 4.11 gears, spohn torque arm (-1 pinion angle) and HD alumimum denny's DS.
10-12-2003, 10:21 PM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno I would atap the car to get a baseline so U know where U stand. Does the car "feel" stronger? The car is obviously making way more power, it just needs to be tuned perfectly. How much did U gain overall with YT's and Joes heads? Good luck. Did U see my car, again? 
10-12-2003, 10:53 PM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno Great new numbers EzSS!!! Joe at JPR really knows his stuff, I've spkoen with him several times about my 388 all bore and even though I'm clear acorss the country and don't have a motor that he built he still didn't hesitate to spend some time talking with me on the phone about my setup.
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10-13-2003, 12:55 AM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno "I got the car back friday from Joe, who turned the car around really quickly so I could race at SLP day -- thanks Joe and JPR!"
Your welcome, we busted tail to get it out ASAP even though we are currently working on 4 different projects.
"They dynoed the car I believe 8 times to try and get it adjusted properly to the 42lb injectors"
Eric, we wouldn't have had to dyno the car so many times if there was a stock MAF in place, in the 3 dimentional picture of your MAF mapping, there is an actual crater in your MAF table to make the 42's work correctly with the 85mm MAF, there is nothing wrong with factory MAF's.
I couldn't open your dyno link.
"Quick shifted to second, burnout good. Roll to starting line, and the car wont go into gear. Tried everything...Had to be pushed off the line, then towed into the pits"
My guess here would be your clutch was slipping in your 2nd gear burn out and over heated the brake fuild in the clutch master.
"Some people from the club got the run on tape, and Im still blowing a lot of white-blue smoke out of the tailpipes...problem. Plus several people commented that it sounds like the car is "breaking up" when it gets in the upper rpm range."
The last time this happened, it was residual smoke from your burnout and the breaking up was probably the motor on the rev limiter.
"Anyhow, made one more pass, almost identical run to the first, including hitting the limiter on the 1-2, and a 1.69 60 (jeez!) and another 12.1. Needlessly to say, i was more than a little discouraged. I guess Im going to try and run cecil next week, but I wonder if I should just wait until everything is fixed correctly first."
Bring it to ATCO this Tue night and I will give you a low 11 sec slip out of it.
It dosen't need an A-tap, it's tunned perfectly well, I know that for a fact, we had -0- smoke on the dyno, call JD and ask anyone who was there at your session. Yes, the car is much faster/quicker than pre head change even before Eric installed the 42lbs injectors, I would describe it as scary fast into the upper RPM band.
Final thoughts, your clutch slave is either mis adjusted, or the fluid is beat in the clutch master cauing it to over heat prematurly. I will look into the oil consumption, although Eric W. was following behind me to the dyno session in some spirited driving and made no mention of any smoke on a 1 hour drive, he would have said something but I will ask him tommorow morning.
Your welcome, we busted tail to get it out ASAP even though we are currently working on 4 different projects.
"They dynoed the car I believe 8 times to try and get it adjusted properly to the 42lb injectors"
Eric, we wouldn't have had to dyno the car so many times if there was a stock MAF in place, in the 3 dimentional picture of your MAF mapping, there is an actual crater in your MAF table to make the 42's work correctly with the 85mm MAF, there is nothing wrong with factory MAF's.
I couldn't open your dyno link.
"Quick shifted to second, burnout good. Roll to starting line, and the car wont go into gear. Tried everything...Had to be pushed off the line, then towed into the pits"
My guess here would be your clutch was slipping in your 2nd gear burn out and over heated the brake fuild in the clutch master.
"Some people from the club got the run on tape, and Im still blowing a lot of white-blue smoke out of the tailpipes...problem. Plus several people commented that it sounds like the car is "breaking up" when it gets in the upper rpm range."
The last time this happened, it was residual smoke from your burnout and the breaking up was probably the motor on the rev limiter.
"Anyhow, made one more pass, almost identical run to the first, including hitting the limiter on the 1-2, and a 1.69 60 (jeez!) and another 12.1. Needlessly to say, i was more than a little discouraged. I guess Im going to try and run cecil next week, but I wonder if I should just wait until everything is fixed correctly first."
Bring it to ATCO this Tue night and I will give you a low 11 sec slip out of it.
It dosen't need an A-tap, it's tunned perfectly well, I know that for a fact, we had -0- smoke on the dyno, call JD and ask anyone who was there at your session. Yes, the car is much faster/quicker than pre head change even before Eric installed the 42lbs injectors, I would describe it as scary fast into the upper RPM band.
Final thoughts, your clutch slave is either mis adjusted, or the fluid is beat in the clutch master cauing it to over heat prematurly. I will look into the oil consumption, although Eric W. was following behind me to the dyno session in some spirited driving and made no mention of any smoke on a 1 hour drive, he would have said something but I will ask him tommorow morning.
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10-13-2003, 08:13 AM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno The car is still loaded up with the tires and everything, so I may attempt Atco tuesday, although its quite a haul and I was exhausted last time I did it (got home at like 1am) and only got one pass in.
It is definately not burnout smoke. Even back at cecil many months ago Mikey from Rapid and several others observed and said it was blue-white smoke coming from the tailpipes. I also got that comment on the drive over, that I was blowing a lot of smoke from people following behind me. I am going to have to do the oil conversion and hope it fixes this problem.
The car does feel faster, I think thats why I kept missing the 1-2 shift.
I also forgot to mention that I have an SES light on for all of the passes. I didnt have ATAP with me and couldnt find someone to clear it, but it looks like a TPS sensor problem (negative) that I was having before.
Its a ram clutch, sintered iron flywheel, adjustable master, upgraded hydraulics. It has tenacious grip out of the hole, but I have a very hard time quick shifting it under load. Ill look into replacing the fluid in the master.
I have been wondering if my stock fuel pump can feed the 42 lb injectors properly for the duration of a 1/4 mile run, so I probably will try to ATAP it just to make sure Im not having this kind of problem.
It is definately not burnout smoke. Even back at cecil many months ago Mikey from Rapid and several others observed and said it was blue-white smoke coming from the tailpipes. I also got that comment on the drive over, that I was blowing a lot of smoke from people following behind me. I am going to have to do the oil conversion and hope it fixes this problem.
The car does feel faster, I think thats why I kept missing the 1-2 shift.
I also forgot to mention that I have an SES light on for all of the passes. I didnt have ATAP with me and couldnt find someone to clear it, but it looks like a TPS sensor problem (negative) that I was having before.
Its a ram clutch, sintered iron flywheel, adjustable master, upgraded hydraulics. It has tenacious grip out of the hole, but I have a very hard time quick shifting it under load. Ill look into replacing the fluid in the master.
I have been wondering if my stock fuel pump can feed the 42 lb injectors properly for the duration of a 1/4 mile run, so I probably will try to ATAP it just to make sure Im not having this kind of problem.
10-13-2003, 09:21 AM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno Alright I think I am going to attempt atco tuesday, and let Joe or someone else drive the car. Its not fair on my part to drag anyone else down because Im a sucky driver, which is definately true. The car is making the power, even if there is an oil issue. My shifts are very slow...one time at the local track here after I pulled into the pits some guy I didnt even know came up to me and said "Man I think I counted 3 seconds between you 2-3 shift"...Ouch. Im probably a good candidate for an automatic.
10-13-2003, 09:25 AM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno It is never a bad idea to atap your car on the street/strip to see what it is actually doing. THe dyno does not exactly simulate what happens on the road. It just sounds like you need to get your setup sorted out though, you cant expect to run the number first time out on a new setup.
10-13-2003, 10:18 AM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno You shouldn't be blowing blue/white smoke at all especially if the tuning is good and the PCV setup is fine. Blue smoke indicates oil and white smoke indicates coolant. Do all the normal tests first (leakdown, compression test, check out your PCV etc)
Unfortunately you might have a dropped/cracked sleeve.
Good luck with it, it should run strong when everything is sorted out.
Unfortunately you might have a dropped/cracked sleeve.
Good luck with it, it should run strong when everything is sorted out.
10-13-2003, 10:33 AM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno
You shouldn't be blowing blue/white smoke at all especially if the tuning is good and the PCV setup is fine. Blue smoke indicates oil and white smoke indicates coolant. Do all the normal tests first (leakdown, compression test, check out your PCV etc)
Unfortunately you might have a dropped/cracked sleeve.
Good luck with it, it should run strong when everything is sorted out.
Unfortunately you might have a dropped/cracked sleeve.
Good luck with it, it should run strong when everything is sorted out.
The sleeve cant drop in the darton wet setup, and I think a crack is very unlikely, but I suppose there could be something like a small gasket leak, but Im far from an expert, so Ill see if Joe can take a look. When the car sits, it does not leak any oil or coolant, it is bone dry under the car. Im told the smoke is more bluish-blackish than white, although I thought it looked whitish through the rearview mirror.
10-13-2003, 10:39 AM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno Go find a mustang dyno, too. The dynojets can't simulate the load the same as it is on the road, especially at high RPMs. Normally, they load the motor initially with an inertial weight, but once it is spinning, there is very little load on the car. It will just take another variable out of your search.
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10-13-2003, 10:41 AM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno
I would atap the car to get a baseline so U know where U stand. Does the car "feel" stronger? The car is obviously making way more power, it just needs to be tuned perfectly. How much did U gain overall with YT's and Joes heads? Good luck. Did U see my car, again?
I picked up 23rwhp/ 9 rwtq from head swap and the yella terras peak, but the car pulls much stronger down low too.
10-13-2003, 11:40 AM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno
"Man I think I counted 3 seconds between you 2-3 shift"...Ouch. Im probably a good candidate for an automatic.
(TH400 ordered..)
10-13-2003, 11:46 AM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno
"Man I think I counted 3 seconds between you 2-3 shift"...Ouch. Im probably a good candidate for an automatic.
(TH400 ordered..)
10-14-2003, 09:43 AM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno good luck tonight ezss. you should definately try to ATAP each and every run tonight; very important with a new combo. you're in good hands with joe. keep us posted. get to atco way early if at all possible. i mean like 4:45pm.
10-14-2003, 10:35 PM
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Re: New JPR heads on all-bore 388 dyno Well the weather didnt cooperate, so we are trying for thursday instead. Im going to change the clutch/brake fluid (it looks kinda beat actually as Joe thought it might) and also put mobil 1 ATF fluid in the tranny to see if this eases the shifting problem that is probably just me, but hey worth a shot.