Bader-X

iTrader: (2)

if a cam card says 114+2 .... does it mean that the cam advance or retard is built in the cam and it doesn`t need to be degreed +2? or it means that the cam is better degreed +2 using the timing chain?

I thought it was the first .... but a two mechanics and 2 people told me the opposite.

thanks for teaching me ^_^

quistion=question

jetlag

iTrader: (32)

It has 2 degrees of advance already ground into it.

Bader-X

iTrader: (2)

so if I want it 114 ++2 I`ll install it dot to dot or 0 to 0 on the timing chain no need to +2 or - 2 on the timing chan?

if so ... lol ... but what ever they know how to assemble an engine hehehe

Thimble

iTrader: (2)

It means if you install dot-to-dot, it will already be advanced 2° , or in other words, set at 112° ICL.

If you manually advance it 2° via timing set adjustment, then you will be a total of 4° advanced, or set at 110° ICL.

Bader-X

iTrader: (2)

LOL
thank you thank you thank you both for replying ...
so I`m correct and what I know is right! but but ... they were two mechanichs specialized in LSX !!! hehehe .... that`s why I didn`t disassemble the used stroker short block that came assembled from the us to change to a different bigger lower compression pistons localy

hopefully will dyno next week or so I~ll post the results in the dyno section
bye bye

Old SStroker

Don't forget to degree in your cam to make sure the ICL is where it is supposed to be. Installing dot-to-dot may be fine...or perhaps not.

This is from the Comp instructions:


It isn’t absolutely necessary to degree the cam for the engine to run efficiently. COMP Cams ® grinds most of its High Energy™, Magnum, and Xtreme Energy™ Cams four degrees advanced. This positions the camshaft for the best street performance. However, to assure maximum performance it is recommended to degree the cam. The purpose of degreeing a camshaft is to correct the errors and tolerances in the machining processes of the engine that can affect camshaft timing. COMP Cams ® suggests the intake centerline method as the most simple, quick, and efficient way to degree a new camshaft. Instructions for degreeing can be found later in this booklet."


We all want maximum performance, right?


Jon

airforcemanss

iTrader: (23)

^^of course

but i don't understand why degreeing a cam is for max performance? is that because most of the power band is going to be in the upper rpm range where racing is done anyways? thats my reasoning anyone care to explain?

Old SStroker

Degreeing just puts it where the designer wanted it to be. If it is not installed where it was designed to be, output throughout the rpm range will most likely not be what the designer wanted it to be.

This is more critical for a custom cam designed for a particular engine/vehicle combination. Assuming the engine/cam designer knows what works (and that's a BIG assumption depending on who did the design) having the cam installed off a number of degrees will effect the performance.

If your question meant what does advancing or retarding a cam from design positon do, that is a whole 'nother story.

There probably isn't a cam guy who hasn't heard someone complain that his engine didn't perform as expected after a custom cam install. The first question to the user is, "Was it degreed in as the designer specified?" Most often it was not, and when that gets corrected performance gets back to what was expected. Some, but perhaps not all, cam designers on occasion will personally degree in a customer's cam.

IOW, the better the design, the more important it is to get the cam installed correctly if you want maximum performance. If you don't want that why bother getting a custom cam? Take an internet poll and grab the shelf cam that wins. Being off a few degrees probably won't be noticed in that case.

Jon

PREDATOR-Z

Degreing is to install at specs designed. How about if you have a cam designed with advance and dot to dot it is retarded? Basicaly to run it with designed valve events which affect performance dramaticaly since they are what dictate your cylinder charge in/spent gases out cycles.

FastB

iTrader: (11)

I'm new at this too. So do you or do you not have to degree a cam if it is say 111+3 LSA custom ground cam. I am confused. If the advance is already ground in what are you degreeing? I was planning on installing dot to dot because the advance was already ground in and I thought that is what you are supposed to do.

1SLwLS1

iTrader: (6)

I am really confused now. I thought it was important to degree ALL cams regardless of their design origins. Whether it be a custom design or a MS4 or a standard 224.

Is it possible to send the cam and get it spec'd or something to where you know that cam is without maching flaw or they can say, retard this cam 2 degrees to get it back to the designed specs?

Sorry for the Hijack

Bader-X

iTrader: (2)

my thoughts are the same as FastB ....

the cam I`m installing is a cutom cam speced for my combination and the designer stated in the sheet:
HR114LSA +2 advance (112 installed intake centerline) ........ good I read this just now.

1-do I install it dot to dot or + or - 2 with the timing chain?
tomorrow installing

2-and if I do +2 it`ll be like 114 + 4 right?

3-if so why wasn`t the cam a 114+4 from the desighn and got it over without the adjutment in the timing chain 114+2 and +2 in the timing chain will act differantly than a 114+4 installed dot to dot?

Old SStroker

Guys, here it is again from Comp:

The purpose of degreeing a camshaft is to correct the errors and tolerances in the machining processes of the engine that can affect camshaft timing.


It is not just machining of the cam that changes things. It's also things like location of the keyway in the crank snout, location of the keyway in the crank sprocket, location of the dowel pin hole in the cam sprocket, distance between crank and cam centerlines and a few others. All of these can be + or - from where they belong and can add up to a change in where the cam is when installed dot-to-dot. That's why you should degree every cam installation. Not everyone does; some luck out and some don't.

Don't overthink this. The cam guy did the correct thing by telling you where the intake centerline (ICL) should be. That's ALL you really need to know. You don't even need a cam card if you know the correct ICL. Sometimes that would be a better idea: forget the LSA and ground in advance, etc. Put the ICL in where the cam guy told you to and let 'er eat!

Start at dot-to-dot, which if EVERYTHING in the engine is right where it belongs you should come up with 112° ICL. Consider it your lucky day if you do, but you need to measure that ("degree the cam"). Hoping isn't enough.

If it is NOT 112°, for whatever reason, you may want to correct it to 112° ICL. If you check it 3 or 4 times using Comp's ICL method and it's within +/- 1° of 112° each time you might not want to mess with it.

If you get different answers every time you "degree" it, get some help. Really large degree wheels and a pro doing it is the best way. You can learn way more watching/helping than you can reading about it. One good measurement is worth more than hundreds of words about it.

Remember: If you don't measure (degree) it you won't know where it is installed. You paid good money for a cam so put it in correctly.

Good luck!


Jon

Bader-X

iTrader: (2)

aha!
thank you very much Old SStroker ... that was informative ^_^ now I understand

degreeing a cam should be done because not always dot to dot will give the same ICL ground in the came because some things might be off in the engine and degreeing it with a wheel will make sure it is installed where it should be ICL wise ^_^

funny ... I just saw my nickname change to TECH Apprentice .... it was Launching hehehe