Differences between 1999 and 2001 LS1 ?
12-10-2003, 01:03 PM
#1
Staging Lane
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Differences between 1999 and 2001 LS1 ? I have already posted this on the External Engine forum, but as my query suits both, I posted here too - so here goes....
Got an intenral problem with my 2001 LS1, and as luck would have it I have access to a 1999 LS1 block (low 10K miles block but body wrecked !!!)
Anyone know of any problems in swapping the blocks ? Re computer modules need to be swapped too ?? Or anything else. This is a cheaper route that getting the 2001 stripped and repaired..
Anything I should take off the 2001, intake manifold (LS6 I believe) ?
I have posted else where and have concluded I should use the 2001
ECM
Intake manifold
Exhaust manifold
Injectors.
I have had a workshop manual on order, here in the UK for 10months !!!! so may be back here for further advice, such as manifold torque settings (one to start with but now found them on LS1 how to - great site)
If anyone can add any useful advice, tips or comments, It would be much appreciated. Anything I should do why the blocks are out, add anything ?
thanks in advance.....
Got an intenral problem with my 2001 LS1, and as luck would have it I have access to a 1999 LS1 block (low 10K miles block but body wrecked !!!)
Anyone know of any problems in swapping the blocks ? Re computer modules need to be swapped too ?? Or anything else. This is a cheaper route that getting the 2001 stripped and repaired..
Anything I should take off the 2001, intake manifold (LS6 I believe) ?
I have posted else where and have concluded I should use the 2001
ECM
Intake manifold
Exhaust manifold
Injectors.
I have had a workshop manual on order, here in the UK for 10months !!!! so may be back here for further advice, such as manifold torque settings (one to start with but now found them on LS1 how to - great site)
If anyone can add any useful advice, tips or comments, It would be much appreciated. Anything I should do why the blocks are out, add anything ?
thanks in advance.....
12-10-2003, 01:31 PM
#2
An LS1 block is an LS1 block (for the most part).
The 97-98 blocks could only take a 0.0040" clean up but in 99 the liners were re-designed to take a 0.010" bore.
The rod bolts in the 01 and up rotating assemblies are stronger than the 97-00s. This isn't a concern for you, because you will need to replace the rod bolts anyways (Torque to yield = only use once) so you should just upgrade to ARP bolts ($80) anyways.
Your 01 "engine" has a much better oil pump (LS6) so keep that. I would even suggest taking it apart and porting it for more flow.
You already hit on the LS6 intake manifold (01 and up).
The 99 cam has more duration (209/198 vs. 207/196) and more lift (.500”/.500” vs. .479”/.467”) but has a wider LSA (119.5 vs. 116). I always guessed that the "older" cams would make more power than the newer cams if put in the exact same engine but this is also something that should just be upgraded with an aftermarket and don't mess with the factory piece.
I personally don't "torque" the intake manifold bolts on my car. They are really spindly little things (same with the two long thin oil pan bolts in the rear…do not torque!) and have found that they will seal with a good "snug" down.
While you are in there, I would not use factory head and main bolts. Instead, just go with ARP studs as they are MUCH stronger and MUCH easier to work with (vs. the turn 20 degrees, then 35 more, then 10, then etc…..Torque to yield is a PAIN).
.
The 97-98 blocks could only take a 0.0040" clean up but in 99 the liners were re-designed to take a 0.010" bore.
The rod bolts in the 01 and up rotating assemblies are stronger than the 97-00s. This isn't a concern for you, because you will need to replace the rod bolts anyways (Torque to yield = only use once) so you should just upgrade to ARP bolts ($80) anyways.
Your 01 "engine" has a much better oil pump (LS6) so keep that. I would even suggest taking it apart and porting it for more flow.
You already hit on the LS6 intake manifold (01 and up).
The 99 cam has more duration (209/198 vs. 207/196) and more lift (.500”/.500” vs. .479”/.467”) but has a wider LSA (119.5 vs. 116). I always guessed that the "older" cams would make more power than the newer cams if put in the exact same engine but this is also something that should just be upgraded with an aftermarket and don't mess with the factory piece.
I personally don't "torque" the intake manifold bolts on my car. They are really spindly little things (same with the two long thin oil pan bolts in the rear…do not torque!) and have found that they will seal with a good "snug" down.
While you are in there, I would not use factory head and main bolts. Instead, just go with ARP studs as they are MUCH stronger and MUCH easier to work with (vs. the turn 20 degrees, then 35 more, then 10, then etc…..Torque to yield is a PAIN).
.
Last edited by 2001CamaroGuy; 12-10-2003 at 01:39 PM.
12-10-2003, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 2001CamaroGuy
An LS1 block is an LS1 block (for the most part).
The 97-98 blocks could only take a 0.0040" clean up but in 99 the liners were re-designed to take a 0.010" bore.
The rod bolts in the 01 and up rotating assemblies are stronger than the 97-00s. This isn't a concern for you, because you will need to replace the rod bolts anyways (Torque to yield = only use once) so you should just upgrade to ARP bolts ($80) anyways.
Your 01 "engine" has a much better oil pump (LS6) so keep that. I would even suggest taking it apart and porting it for more flow.
You already hit on the LS6 intake manifold (01 and up).
The 99 cam has more duration (209/198 vs. 207/196) and more lift (.500”/.500” vs. .479”/.467”) but has a wider LSA (119.5 vs. 116). I always guessed that the "older" cams would make more power than the newer cams if put in the exact same engine but this is also something that should just be upgraded with an aftermarket and don't mess with the factory piece.
I personally don't "torque" the intake manifold bolts on my car. They are really spindly little things (same with the two long thin oil pan bolts in the rear…do not torque!) and have found that they will seal with a good "snug" down.
While you are in there, I would not use factory head and main bolts. Instead, just go with ARP studs as they are MUCH stronger and MUCH easier to work with (vs. the turn 20 degrees, then 35 more, then 10, then etc…..Torque to yield is a PAIN).
.
The 97-98 blocks could only take a 0.0040" clean up but in 99 the liners were re-designed to take a 0.010" bore.
The rod bolts in the 01 and up rotating assemblies are stronger than the 97-00s. This isn't a concern for you, because you will need to replace the rod bolts anyways (Torque to yield = only use once) so you should just upgrade to ARP bolts ($80) anyways.
Your 01 "engine" has a much better oil pump (LS6) so keep that. I would even suggest taking it apart and porting it for more flow.
You already hit on the LS6 intake manifold (01 and up).
The 99 cam has more duration (209/198 vs. 207/196) and more lift (.500”/.500” vs. .479”/.467”) but has a wider LSA (119.5 vs. 116). I always guessed that the "older" cams would make more power than the newer cams if put in the exact same engine but this is also something that should just be upgraded with an aftermarket and don't mess with the factory piece.
I personally don't "torque" the intake manifold bolts on my car. They are really spindly little things (same with the two long thin oil pan bolts in the rear…do not torque!) and have found that they will seal with a good "snug" down.
While you are in there, I would not use factory head and main bolts. Instead, just go with ARP studs as they are MUCH stronger and MUCH easier to work with (vs. the turn 20 degrees, then 35 more, then 10, then etc…..Torque to yield is a PAIN).
.
12-10-2003, 07:30 PM
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I have a 99'....stock pump, I keep 6qts of RP in her and @ 110,000 miles she's still going strong...... JM .02
The 2001 has covered barely 7K miles and sounds like a bag of spanners being thrown around in a cardboard box !!! Luckily, for me, someone trashed a newly imported 30th Anniversary T/A - he only had it a week and totalled it ! I managed to get the block for a good price - hence the transplant - the '99 has only covered 10K miles
There aren't too many LS1 powered anythings in the UK so to get a complete engine is very rare ! I paid the equivalent of about $2,000 which I think is a bargain ?
The 2001 engine should still be under warranty but there is only one North American GM dealer in the UK and it has been a complete waste of time getting them to deal with the claim !!!!!
Thanks for any advice -
12-10-2003, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 01 ws6 uk
Nice to know yours made 103,000 mile more than mine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The 2001 has covered barely 7K miles and sounds like a bag of spanners being thrown around in a cardboard box !!! Luckily, for me, someone trashed a newly imported 30th Anniversary T/A - he only had it a week and totalled it ! I managed to get the block for a good price - hence the transplant - the '99 has only covered 10K miles
There aren't too many LS1 powered anythings in the UK so to get a complete engine is very rare ! I paid the equivalent of about $2,000 which I think is a bargain ?
The 2001 engine should still be under warranty but there is only one North American GM dealer in the UK and it has been a complete waste of time getting them to deal with the claim !!!!!
Thanks for any advice -
The 2001 has covered barely 7K miles and sounds like a bag of spanners being thrown around in a cardboard box !!! Luckily, for me, someone trashed a newly imported 30th Anniversary T/A - he only had it a week and totalled it ! I managed to get the block for a good price - hence the transplant - the '99 has only covered 10K miles
There aren't too many LS1 powered anythings in the UK so to get a complete engine is very rare ! I paid the equivalent of about $2,000 which I think is a bargain ?
The 2001 engine should still be under warranty but there is only one North American GM dealer in the UK and it has been a complete waste of time getting them to deal with the claim !!!!!
Thanks for any advice -
PS. what a dumba** that wrecked tho... *shrug*
12-10-2003, 11:45 PM
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I'm not too sure I'm clear on what you have here. Do you have a busted '01 motor, and a good '99 complete motor? Or do you have a busted '01 motor and a good '99 block only? If the 99 is a complete motor, I'd swap out the intake manifold and the oil pump from the '01 onto the '99 motor, sell whatever good parts you can afford to get rid of off the '01 motor, use that money to buy a new big old lopey cam for the '99 motor, and call it a day. If it's just a block only from the 99, I would do pretty much what these other guys said.
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12-10-2003, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by RutanZ28
I'm not too sure I'm clear on what you have here. Do you have a busted '01 motor, and a good '99 complete motor? Or do you have a busted '01 motor and a good '99 block only? If the 99 is a complete motor, I'd swap out the intake manifold and the oil pump from the '01 onto the '99 motor, sell whatever good parts you can afford to get rid of off the '01 motor, use that money to buy a new big old lopey cam for the '99 motor, and call it a day. If it's just a block only from the 99, I would do pretty much what these other guys said.
12-10-2003, 11:50 PM
#9
Originally Posted by RutanZ28
Just out of curiosity, what is the extent of the internal damages to your motor?
thats a good question (that I should have thought to ask a long time ago)........what are you dealing with hear? If the block its self is still "good", why not do a 0.005" or 0.010" over bore, slap some forged pistons in, and really have yourself a motor?
12-11-2003, 01:34 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by RutanZ28
Just out of curiosity, what is the extent of the internal damages to your motor?
Just to clarify. I have a 2001 T/A WS6 complete car and with a rattly engine
I have picked up complete engine from a 1999 (anniversary) (mostly complete less a few pullys and the alternator, damaged in the crash.
My main concern is swapping enough bits over from the 2001 to the 1999 so as to keep the 2001 ECM
Believe me $2,000 for a 10,000 mile LS1 is a good deal !! Dont forget, any parts I ship in, incurr shipping in addition to import tax at 17.5% The Borla cost Ł1000 (fitted) approx $1500 !!
It's a bit like you lot owning a Jaguar or Range Rover - you pay to be different $$$$$$$$$
Not forgetting our petrol (GAS) price is about $7 a gallon too !!! I'm now on my third Trans Am - started with a '79, and still own an '86 and the 2001.
Heres the donar car !!! Pretty wrecked !
12-11-2003, 05:22 AM
#11
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BTW this is the block
The only other salvageable parts were two wheels, front seats, radio and and the WS6 badge. Becuase it was such a new import, the guy wasn't insured either
The only other salvageable parts were two wheels, front seats, radio and and the WS6 badge. Becuase it was such a new import, the guy wasn't insured either
12-11-2003, 07:53 AM
#12
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Outch!
Just a heads up. You should pull out the driver and passenger side window motors, and headlight motors...If they are not damaged buy them. You will almost definately need them in the future.
Another heads up....Piston slap and oil consumption is pretty common with the '01s but it is not nessisarily cause for concern....Drive yours like it is until you actually need the new bottom end.
BTW: There are pretty significant computer programmed differences between the '99 and '01 as well. The '01 timing maps are not nearly as aggressive, and are tuned to use the bigger injectors that came in the 01. When you start to mix and match these parts you will need a tune. My suggestion would be to swap the entire '99 longblock in (CPU included). Just add the manifolds, intake, and injectors (if you want, not needed) from your '01. If you do not have access to a computer tune I would stick with the stock '99 injectors.
Just a heads up. You should pull out the driver and passenger side window motors, and headlight motors...If they are not damaged buy them. You will almost definately need them in the future.
Another heads up....Piston slap and oil consumption is pretty common with the '01s but it is not nessisarily cause for concern....Drive yours like it is until you actually need the new bottom end.
BTW: There are pretty significant computer programmed differences between the '99 and '01 as well. The '01 timing maps are not nearly as aggressive, and are tuned to use the bigger injectors that came in the 01. When you start to mix and match these parts you will need a tune. My suggestion would be to swap the entire '99 longblock in (CPU included). Just add the manifolds, intake, and injectors (if you want, not needed) from your '01. If you do not have access to a computer tune I would stick with the stock '99 injectors.
Last edited by niphilli; 12-11-2003 at 08:09 AM.
12-11-2003, 08:13 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by 01 ws6 uk
It still goes, and pretty well too, it has a slight piston slap from cold but when up to temperature it has a bad rattle. However, the rattle only occurs when the engine is not under load, and only appears between 1,000 and 1,500 rpm. Its no right and guess eventually if i dont sort it out now, some major damage will occur.
12-11-2003, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by niphilli
Are you sure that the sound is coming from the engine? It is strange that it does not continue under load....Could it be coming from the clutch assy?
Same, if you rev the engine, as the revs die the rattle can be heard at 1500 rpm then dies at 1000 rpm.. It's definitely engine related. I have had a couple of people listen to it and it seems they think it's piston/s, or there is another piston related problem. Is doesn't sound good either way. Also, the rattle is muffled if the car is put in gear and held by the brake - hence it doesn't seem apparent when under load, accelerating or holding the brake on ?? Anyone heard of anything like this before ?? It may be a bit over the top to change the engine but as I said, It doesn't seem to affect performance as I recently gave it a good run, averaging about 120mph with bursts of 140+ However, I have a guarantee that runs out in February, so the engine needs to be pulled anyway.
RE: motors. I didn't salvage the car but from what I remember only one door and one window motor were good ! Even both rear lenses were damaged. Honestly, it was shaped like a banana !! Some crash !
12-11-2003, 10:56 AM
#15
Hey I think you got a great deal on that engine . . . the wrecking yard that I visited in California had LS1's out of wrecked vehicles for $3500 each with 30k to 60k on all; that did include the trannies with the engines, though.
Before you yank the motor out of your '01 you might want to check the lifter preload and that the pushrods are all straight.
WOW that donar car really got trashed; how bad was the driver hurt?
Before you yank the motor out of your '01 you might want to check the lifter preload and that the pushrods are all straight.
WOW that donar car really got trashed; how bad was the driver hurt?
12-11-2003, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Cal
Before you yank the motor out of your '01 you might want to check the lifter preload and that the pushrods are all straight.
WOW that donar car really got trashed; how bad was the driver hurt?
WOW that donar car really got trashed; how bad was the driver hurt?
The driver of the car, as far as i know, got knocked un-conscious but nothing serious
I think his wallet got hurt though 
01-01-2004, 08:21 AM
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OK, engine transplant went ok. Changed over the intake, injectors and exhaust. there were a few other differences under the intake manifold (some small bore water pipes. Started on the key. have not pushed it yet as have only covered about 10 miles so far (it's raining in London so it's in the garage) I'll let you know how it goes when the weather improves.
Another difference I found was the letters on the end of the blocks ? Any one know what they mean ??
[YHA ?]
[SHB ?]
I'll be delving into the 2001 block to try and locate the rattle. I'll probably go with replacing a lot of the internals whilst I’m there so will be back with some guidance.
Thanks for everyone’s input.
BTW I have a full set of workshop manuals so I can help anyone with anything from there post it up I'll I'll have a look
Another difference I found was the letters on the end of the blocks ? Any one know what they mean ??
[YHA ?][SHB ?]I'll be delving into the 2001 block to try and locate the rattle. I'll probably go with replacing a lot of the internals whilst I’m there so will be back with some guidance.
Thanks for everyone’s input.
BTW I have a full set of workshop manuals so I can help anyone with anything from there post it up I'll I'll have a look
01-01-2004, 08:36 AM
#18
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I am not sure of those stickers on the heads. My car and the others I have worked on in the states do not have them, maybe it is an export thing. There are a few other things that could have differed between the '99 and '01. The head castings are different, but there was not a very significant change in those. Also about 15% of the '01 F-bodys did get the LS6 block due to a shortage in the LS1 block in manufacturing. You can do a search to see if your '01 is an LS6 block. Neither of these changes is worth worrying about IMHO.
01-01-2004, 09:04 AM
#19
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Can't be an export thing as there is no Export model, they were both shiped as USA spec for the '99 and Canada spec for the '01. Only an observation - doesn't really matter.
Got the LS1/LS6 detials and will check on the '01 block as thats sitting on the bench at the moment.
Got the LS1/LS6 detials and will check on the '01 block as thats sitting on the bench at the moment.
01-01-2004, 09:32 AM
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Stickers on the head are just assy codes like where and when. I think that the 2000 dollar is a good deal also. I've heard that the heads on the 2001 flow a little better than the 99's so keep that in mind. You should just be able to swap all the top end stuff around and still be ok with your pcm, Just swap blocks. It will all bolt up ok.