Quickin

Fit into an F-Body?

I see old muscle cars with Chevy motors that are putting down 700-800 RWHP normally aspirated, what parts are they built with?

2001CamaroGuy

iTrader: (6)

stronger in what way? HP? Indestructablility?

The ultimate (in all ways) is either a 700-800 CI Dart or World Iron Big block or a 600-650 CI Dart Aluminum Big Block, either using BIGGGG Brodix Aluminum heads. The Big Block WILL fit in a Camaro (BRM even makes motor mounts to install it) and D&D makes a conversion based on the Viper T56 to mount behind a T-10 bell housing (thus mounting to a big block) and you can still use the factory hydrolic clutch.

these are just basic numbers to be used as a guide:

- figure the block will cost ~ to a C5R block
- the supper forged/billet crank will be ~$2000-$3000
- forged/billet rods ~ $1500+
- forged pistons ~ $500-$1000
- REALLY GOOD race heads ~ $3000


Realize, depending on what you are doing, even the aluminum big block is going to weigh more than the C5R so that could/would change the handling of the car. If you go carb, you might have to cut the hood to clear the manifold.


I personally get giddy and happy when I think about converting my LS1 camaro over to a 600 CI aluminum big block.......no replacement for displacement

J-Rod

www.ultrastreet.net

Go see all the stuff from Scott Shafiroff. Check out the short block prices. A 632" BBC shortblock is only $5795. Heck, a complete motor making 1050HP and cost $15K.

Thier 540" deluxe street engine short block in only $5595. The std shortblock is $4295.

A complete 706" Big Chief is $30K

niphilli

Just buy a stock '03 cobra motor with a 101mm turbo and 20psi of boost .


(Did I say that?)

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

niphilli, I like your thinking

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

One of those 540 CID shortblocks would be sweet. Can they be made to be EFI?


That's cheap in comparison to the LS1 stuff
BTW, how reliable are those Ultrastreet motors?

gator's 99TA

iTrader: (2)

the beauty of the lsx motors is teh incredible power it makes while maintaining streetability and economy. it is true the lsx motor isnt even in the same class as all out race motors we are talking about, but it would be a headache to drive those on the street, if that is a concern.

Whistler

iTrader: (46)

What kind of street engine did you see putting down 800RWHP NA?

Chicago Crew UnderBoss

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=CANNIBAL]One of those 540 CID shortblocks would be sweet. Can they be made to be EFI?

LEVI:

For a price ($) of course this can be done!!!!! Also, as i am a proud owner of a 69 camaro with a built N/A 600HP 454 motor i am always reading about these real big block GM motors which would drop right in my engine bay. THe streetables big boys running between 9:5 to 10:5 compression seem to make between 650 and 800 fly wheel horsepower and torque and the more extreme racing motors making in excess of 800HP are not set up to run on pump gas as they are full out racing motors with compression form 12:1 and greater. Someday, i look forward to dropping in a 642 cubed MERLIN BIG BLOCK set up for the street (10 to 10:5 compression) making 800 NA crank HP and TORQUE!!!! And yes, most of these motors i reference are drop in crate motors with full warranties and cost between $10,000 and $15,000.00 about 40% cheaper than the LSx big cubed stroker motors and in my opinion more reliable!!!

CHRISPY

Fitment is an issue with a big block. Dropping the motor for plug changes wouldnt be fun

A built 427 smallblock would be nice but you are talking megabucks

71CamaroLS1

Don't be too seduced by the big flywheel horsepower numbers you see from those BB combinations. I had a 502 big block in my '69 Camaro, with seriously ported aluminum heads and a lumpy hydraulic roller - supposedly good for 575 HP on the engine dyno. By the time it went into the car, with full accessories, full exhaust, etc. it put 448 HP to the rear wheels. It had absolutely awesome low and mid range torque, but it never went over 120 MPH on the strip.

The LSx series motors really are amazing from a HP per CI standpoint. I'd bet that with one of the new single plane intake manifolds and a solid roller, super strokers like yours will see 650 or so dyno HP, with much better overall driveability and lower weight than a BB.

All that said, my extreme '67 Camaro project has an EFI 540 aluminum block, AFR head, solid roller motor. Will be interesting to see what that does compared to the 346 H/C combo I will be building for my '71. My bet is, 100 more HP for the BB, and much more enjoyable to drive LS1.

Quickin

There's a couple I've seen on ebay. One was a '67 or so Vette with a motor that was built for HUGE shots of nitrous, I think it dynoed 1300 RWHP on 500 shot. So that means 800 N/A (approximately). The guy drives it to and from work every day and it has A/C.

There's also a couple cars that go to our local Friday night car show that have 700-800 RWHP all-motor, but those are in a '57 Chevy and the other is in a '69 Camaro. They idle pretty good considering. The '57 Chevy runs low 10's and its got a full interior, he drives it on the street all the time. Don't know what the '69 Camaro runs in the 1/4 but it is a street car, it idles a little rougher.

I haven't had a chance to ask them what the motors are, but I plan to.

I'm asking this because I'd like to have a 1300rwhp WS6 T/A, on motor or FI. But it just doesn't seem possible with an LSx, unless you want a ticking timebomb under the hood.

How do these old school high hp motors last?

Quickin

MORE Performance sell a 725 flywheel hp LS6 with a sheemetal intake and a solid roller, so thats about a 650 RWHP set-up. But can I spray it with a dual stage 300 shot and have it stay together for a few years?

It seems these old school type motors can handle twice that and last a long time.

ARE's 8 second motor puts down 589 RWHP on motor using C5R heads, but I think they're spraying a 400 shot (IIRC). I don't see that motor lasting too long though, right?

CHRISPY

Dont kid yourself. Those big SR/spray motors are torn down and rebuilt every season. Sometimes after every couple of races.

ARE's motor has had normal maintainence after every season. Bearings etc.

when you get into big power you spend big bucks keeping it together. Even with ALL the preperation things can go wrong and boom. You are out 20-50K

J-Rod

A 632 was built locally to go in a guy's boat. It had a set of Lump prepared RFE heads and a single dominator and made 1076HP on 91 octane pump gas....

Keep this in mind. I don't recommend a BBC over an LS1 in your late model Camaro. But, if it came down to putting together a cheap (relatively speaking) street car that could dominate the field, I would seriously look at a big cubic inch motor. We did the pricing exercise on a Schafiroff about a year and a half ago when his 540in short block was $3895. Even using the good buddy deals on parts and getting my local machine shop (a buddy deal) to assemble it for free I could only beat their price by $100-$200.

You can always put an EFI setup on it if you want an injected street motor.

In Houston, several years ago I knew a car that had a BIG inch BBC 540-632in motor that the guy would street race. I watched him fill up at Stop and Go many times to prove his car was on pump gas. It ran in the 9's...

J-Rod

Just realize that just like with the import crowd, there is no replacement for displacement. Yes, our Ls series motors are cool, but it is easier to make more power with a bigger motor. Just a fact of life.


Here is something to think about look at something like the Ray Franks heads. Out of the box some of their heads flow 600 cfm on the intake side.

Go to www.rayfranksent.com


Check out the PN174 or PN 184 heads with 290 320 350 or 470 CC intake runner. Ported as cast (in other words right out of the box). I'd recommend the 184's myself on a 540inch motor with one of the RFE manifolds....

gator's 99TA

iTrader: (2)

quicken, dont believe everything you see or read. VERY VERY few motors will make these tremendous numbers and are streetable. i will go out on a limb and say NONE of these motors will be as reliable milage wise as your combo. these claims of daily driven monster power are there to excite and sell.

2001CamaroGuy

iTrader: (6)

the reason big blocks make huge power and last is simple.....


if you have 800CI and make 1HP per cubic inch (which is easy to do and easy on parts), you have 800HP....

if you have a 427CI LS1 making 650HP, thats 1.5HP per cubic inch (requires more work to produce the extra .5HP per cubic inch and parts are stressed more)......

people run on and on about the "wonders" of the LS1........sure...its a good motor (very happy with mine ) but its STILL A SMALL BLOCK...small heads, smaller parts (less stregth), less CIs.......

whenever this arguement comes up (SB vs BB), I always think of the song "Anything you can do I can do better"........if you run 30psi on you SB to make XXX HP.....I'll run 30psi on my BB and lets see who has more HP

Chicago Crew UnderBoss

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=J-Rod]A 632 was built locally to go in a guy's boat. It had a set of Lump prepared RFE heads and a single dominator and made 1076HP on 91 octane pump gas....

MAN, I HAVE TO get me one of those motors to drop into the engine bay of my 69 Camaro!!

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

If one could get a BB to fit, convert it to EFI, it'd be DAMN reliable, DAMN fast and DAMN AWESOME

A 540 CID BB EFI would be pimp