allout06

iTrader: (11)

Ok guys, I kno cam questions get annoying but I got a couple. I got my build planned out for this year and want your opinions on it. Car is 2000 trans am m6. Mods in sig. this year I plan on Gettin a cam probably towards mid summer. I like the looks of the TSP 233/239 112-113 lsa cam. The car gets driven quite a bit in the summer time. Would that cam be a decent street cam for me? Driveability wise? Along with the cam I'm Gettin the hardened push rods, double roller chain and the ported oil pump along withthe dual beehive springs and titanium retainers the kit comes with. planned on doing the cam swap this year along with a 4.10 gear swap to hold me over till I buy a new diff then, picking up a moser 9" in the winter then do heads/fast 102/TB next spring. Would it b worth to go ahead and try to find an ls6 intake and p/p my throttle body? Or just say **** it and save the money since Imma buy a fast 102/heads/TB in the spring. The heads I'm wanting are the PRC ls6 stage 2.5's. I just want some more power this summer but I can't afford to do heads/cam/rear/tb/Intake all at the same time. I'm doin what my budget allows. Does this sound like a pretty good plan? As far as the parts I'm wanting and how I'm going about it? Sorry for it being such a long post.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Why that cam in particular? They don't make dual beehives. Double roller chains break more then a regular LS2 stock chain.

allout06

iTrader: (11)

I just kinda picked the cam based on it's duration. no dual beehive? It was dual something maybe I misread. And ok I'll switch to the ls2 chain. What cam would u suggest. I'm
Just lookin for advice on my potential setup. Thanks

pozesd99'

iTrader: (3)

Torque v2 or v3 ms3 or 233/239 all great choices. V2 has great power under the curve. Ms3 and v3 u need to spin the motor to about 7k rpm for full potential

allout06

iTrader: (11)

Sry let me rephrase that. I'm workin so I was in a hurry lol. I've seen ppl with that cam an have had good results. I'm lookin for 425-450 rwhp by the time its all said and done. But I want usable power. Ita gonna b mainly a street car with a few trips to the track so good all over power. I've seen ppl have good luck with the 228R also. So just lookin for some rearranging of parts to buy. And if it's ok to do it the way I am.

This year through summer car will have ..
-cam
-4.10 gear set
-tune

Winter-
Moser 9"

Next spring
-heads (ls6 2.5 or 5.3's)
-FAST 102 intake and throttle body
- fuel injectors?
- re-tune

allout06

iTrader: (11)

Ok so the 233+ cams are going to be higher rpm cams? What are the specs on the V2 and v3? Heard the ms3 and 4 are huge cams. Likenu said 7k rpm. I dont want that. More Like 2000rpms and up.

pozesd99'

iTrader: (3)

V3 is a 232/234 .643/.598 112 lsa
Ms3 237/242 .603/.609 112 lsa
Both of these are about 3700-7000 rpm cams

V2 is 232/234 .598/.598 112 lsa. I think.
This cam is a proven cam that's streetable and makes great power.
Predatorz made me a custom cam for low end and good top end for my set up. Can never beat a custom specd cam.

pozesd99'

iTrader: (3)

I'm personally a fan of the ms3 and will be running that cam with the new heads and citrus set up

allout06

iTrader: (11)

Ms3 and the v3 are too high of an operating range for what I'll be using it for. Is the 233/239 tsp around the same area?

What's the operating range for the v2? Sounds like the v2 is gonna be the best choice for me as of right now.

they way I'm doing my build ok to do? sequence wise. As much as I'd love to drop the $8000 to do it all at once my gf would rip my ***** off if she knew I dropped that much all at one time and not spend time going and doing things with her lol.

And is the power goal I'm goin for a reasonable goal. Thanks. This is helping me alot.

intenseblue

iTrader: (1)

A 233/239 has a slightly higher operating range than either torquer cam if they're ground on the same LSA and ICL.

My car has a 232/234 112LSA 110ICL and I wouldn't spin this cam anything less than 6800rpm. The same cam on a 108ICL which would be listed as a 112+4 will be a little better in the middle and peak out a little sooner but I cant comment on how much.

The 233/239 cam will probably peak close to the same and give up a slight touch of lowend and midrange for more top end pull compared to either Torquer cam.

allout06

iTrader: (11)

So basically I'm down to the V2 for what im wanting? what about the 228r vs the v2? Like I said it's gonna be a street car. So im lookin fro good torque and hp from 2000-2500rpm all the way to about 6200-6500. I really don't like revving the car that high so. The higher revving cams are goin to be worthless to me. Ie 3000-7000rpm range cams.

Will a 112-113 lsa would be a good choice?

pozesd99'

iTrader: (3)

For ur goals a v2 cam is probably the best bet as far as off the shelf goes. My current cam would ne great for what u want. It'll be for sale soon too!!!
Predatorz specd reverse split cam
232/228 .603/.598 110 lsa. Great lowend power. This cam on stock heads has gone 11.6 @116 in my car with a stalled auto at 3k da. Full weight camaro. Let me know if ur interested in this cam....

intenseblue

iTrader: (1)

The absolute best advice I can give to you is to talk to the sponsors personally and tell them what you want out of the car. They have more experience with the wide ranges of cam profiles than probably 90% of the board that's only got personal experience with only 1 or 2 different LS1 cams.

I will give you my opinion though based on MY experience. I'm assuming you're looking at TSP cam packages that include camshaft, valve springs, and pushrods. Purely for street I'd go with the Torquer V2 on a 112+4 This should drop your shift point to around 6600rpm. This is if you know for sure you're putting that 4.10 gear in. My recommendation is to buy both the gear and the cam at the same time. With a 3.42 in mine my cam didnt start to scream until the 3000-3500rpm range. 4.10 made it feel a ton better. I like 112LSAs over 114LSAs.

For the RPM range of 6200-6500 a 228R sounds like a surefire bet. Many with that cam have posted that they love the cam and its powerband. I've never heard any complaints on it whatsoever except that many say they wish they wouldve gone larger. TSP can do custom grind camshafts to your specs for no extra charge. Something like a 228/232 on a 112+3 might be the ticket for you, I cant say for sure. What I can tell you, like I said before, is to put the majority of your confidence in what they have to say. They'll make the same amount of moolah no matter which grind you go with, but they'll also want to satisfy your goals to the greatest extent possible to make sure you come back

allout06

iTrader: (11)

that was really helpful. Thanks for taking the time to type that. I'll def give em a call tomorrow and see what they say. The 4.10 gear set will b put in my stock 10 bolt for sure here in a few weeks or so until I get my 9" this winter and I'll do the cam around June time frame. And yes I'm talkin about the TSP kits. I didn't know they did custom stuff at 0 charge. Now when u start getting into different duration on the intake and exhaust and LSA's like 112+3. I start getting lost on what that does. I kno the basics of a cam. But that's about it. I kno a lower number LSA brings the torque into the lower rpm range and higher LSA does the opposite and how they affect idle. I just don't know how much.

Can you chime in with your opinion on how im piecing this together ? And a possible hp number with a cam only and when I get finished? Thanks again

intenseblue

iTrader: (1)

As you've probably read a million times, dynos numbers vary from dyno to dyno depending on a number of variables. Probably the average is in the mid 380 to low 390 range with that cam and bolt ons including underdrive pulley, LS6 intake and ported throttle body. 400-405 has also been hit numerous times. Not sure what to tell you to look for on an LS1 intake. This is just a general ballpark area. I'm not one to put faith in dyno numbers for just numbers. Make sure you're going to a good tuner preferrably one that does alot of LS1 cars or specializes in them. I don't recommend putting faith in them either. There can be a 30rwhp difference from one dyno to the next but those numbers will make no difference when compared to one another on how the car will run.

I really don't know how to hit the camshaft topic right off the top of my head. It's very complicated and this subject could go on forever but ill take a very general shot at it.

Duration: Upping duration offers more top end power at the expense of low end power if LSAs are kept constant.

Ex. 232/234 112lsa 110icl will trade a minor amount of lowend for a minor amount of top-end compared to a 228/230 112 lsa 110 icl

LSA/ICL: The lower numbers bring in power a little earlier and generally have a stouter midrange. They will also chop harder because lowering the LSA with the durations kept constant increases overlap (so does increasing duration) which will also increase midrange and top end production. ICL number compared to the LSA lets you know how far the cam has been advanced or retarded. A 112lsa 110icl is a 112+2 which is a two degree advance and a +4 would be four degrees advanced

If I took a 224R on a 112lsa 110ICL and a 224R on a 114LSA 112ICL, which would make both of them a two degree advance the 112 cam would lope harder, come into the powerband sooner having a meaner midrange, but peak probably 200rpm sooner and make a little less power in the higher rpm band. Most discussions like this hit this topic with an example similar to what I just used.

Now this is one not hit very often. Same camshaft comparo 224R 112LSA intalled at a 110ICL for 2 degrees advance and a 224R 114LSA 110ICL for a four degree advance. Notice I changed the amound of advance on the 114 cam for the same ICL between the two. Now because I've got the an equal Duration and ICL both cams should peak at the same time, giving up the top end pull advantage that the 114 cam in the last comparison. The 112LSA cam will still have the lowend and midrange advantage because the valve events between the intake and exhaust are closer together (when you advance a camshaft moving the intake centerline lower it does the opposite for the exhaust centerline moving it the other way: 114lsa 110icl = 114lsa 118ecl) but will IMO from study only have equal or slightly better topend this go around due to it having the same peak yet more overlap at the same time leaving the only advantage to the 114 cam to be idle quality. This is the reason I prefer a 112 to a 114 cam

intenseblue

iTrader: (1)

I probably could've made that a little easier to understand by hitting less that what i did and more of stuff i didnt but their will be plenty to chime in on this now and Ill check back tomorrow

allout06

iTrader: (11)

Holy **** that's alot of ......****. I understood most of if. I'll do more reading on it of course. Lol. I appreciate it though. Like I said I'll give Texas speed a call soon. As for my build, is it ok to piece it together the way am and in the order I'm doing it? And in the end you think it'll b a good street setup granted I go with the v2 and have a good tune.

intenseblue

iTrader: (1)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...n-part-ii.html

This is definately worth a read if you've got the time. I've read it all the way through once and skimmed it over at least two more times. Don't get discouraged if you dont understand it all the first go around because I sure as hell didnt and quit alot of times because it was pissing me off but it will pay off to read.

Searches on stuff like this will help alot too if you're looking for personal understanding. Anything from Jrod, PatG, SStrokerAce, Brian Tooley, Tony Mamo, just to name a few are worth looking at and remembering.

intenseblue

iTrader: (1)

Definately, but I'd look into finding and LS6 intake to go with it. That will make a big difference in itsself. Porting the throttle body is cheap and could even be done at home. Those are going to be your best investments right now. I'd usually recommend knocking out the LS6 intake first as will most people but the more I think about it if its a daily driver a cam will make more power and the **** eating grin you'll have for a few months from that idle would probably be more worth it to you. If it is street only I'd recommend the 112+4


I was a little vague on alot of stuff in that half-assed cam theory post but if youll look at the link i posted it will clear up alot.

intenseblue

iTrader: (1)

About halfway through the very first post in that thread link you'll find this:

Ok, now this is my understanding of things. There are four timing parameters that define how your engine will operate. These are intake valve opening (IVO), intake valve closing (IVC), exhaust valve opening (EVO) and exhaust valve closing (EVC). It is relatively easy to derive these parameters from the specs supplied by camshaft vendors (lobe center angle (LCA), intake centerline (IC), intake duration (ID), and exhaust duration (ED)) assuming all these parameters are specified.
IVO = ID/2 – IC
IVC = ID – IVO – 180
EVO = ED – EVC – 180
EVC = ED/2 – 2*LCA – IC




Try starting there.