LS1 and LS6 stock rods and bolts the same
02-24-2012, 02:26 PM
#1
LS1 and LS6 stock rods and bolts the same are the LS1 stock rods and rod bolts the same as the LS6 stock rod and rod bolts?
I was going to buy the Katech bolts for my LS1 rebuild but $200 God damn...
was wondering if the LS6 rod bolts are stronger than the LS1 bolts (because they are cheaper than katech)
don't suggest ARP, im not resizing the stock rods
I was going to buy the Katech bolts for my LS1 rebuild but $200 God damn...
was wondering if the LS6 rod bolts are stronger than the LS1 bolts (because they are cheaper than katech)
don't suggest ARP, im not resizing the stock rods
02-28-2012, 07:14 AM
#4
From Katech:
• H-11 high tensile material - 260,000 psi yield strength
• Bolts directly in place, no resizing necessary
• Extended RPM usage
• CMD lube (for steel rods) included
Sounds like a good deal and good insurance/peace of mind to me.
• H-11 high tensile material - 260,000 psi yield strength
• Bolts directly in place, no resizing necessary
• Extended RPM usage
• CMD lube (for steel rods) included
Sounds like a good deal and good insurance/peace of mind to me.
03-04-2012, 09:25 PM
#7
You can upgrade to ARP bolts without resizing. This myth is outta hand. Hell, half of anyone who says you have to re-size, doesn't even ask what brand or model # rod bolts!? How can you answer a question to which you don't have the facts? Besides, resizing a cracked cap rod is frowned on from what I'm reading. Also ridiculous and not as easy as many make it out to be. If it's .002 out, then you have to cut that out or more. The expense to machine and put in spec'd out bearings for new bore should be near $250. If you include the $90 for the Bolts, you're close to $350. Just go buy aftermarket rods if that's your choice. I'm sure some people on here will dis-agree. Ask them if they have done this, had their stock rods resized and at what price. Mostly crickets are all you'll get. Or they had a large machinist bill. Or a small bill done by a "friend" I too was confused by this issue. I asked my machinist. He told me everything I just told you. I didn't just take his word for it. I researched this to the bone. Look up my posts. You will see my statements on this and my proof. I bought them and measured with multiple tools, multiple times. Before with stock bolts torqued to spec and after with the ARP. No issues and a torque spec that ends up 3ft lbs more than stock. Exactly the same bore before and after. Nothing to cause alarm.. At all. This was just in my case of course, that's my personal findings.
If you're set on resizing your stock rods, go get quotes from a machine shop to know exactly the price you're looking at for some re-worked stock rods (thinner) with not much of a bolt upgrade.
If you feel like I might have a clue, -who knows, maybe I don't- just some random dude on the internet, then Use the cheapest option ARP. (ARP 134-6006) Those will hold more than the stock/rods pistons. No reason to buy better or stronger ones that will PROBABLY put your rods out of round. - Like the ARP 2000's.- yet many people have posted good luck with those rods and not resizing also. but Like I said, if you have stock pistons/rods, then there's no reason to buy those.
Yes, later model bolts are stronger. I forgot the year GM switched.
I think the rod strengths are the same no matter what year. Haven't verified.
Now that I said all that, watch my rod bolts fail.
If you're set on resizing your stock rods, go get quotes from a machine shop to know exactly the price you're looking at for some re-worked stock rods (thinner) with not much of a bolt upgrade.
If you feel like I might have a clue, -who knows, maybe I don't- just some random dude on the internet, then Use the cheapest option ARP. (ARP 134-6006) Those will hold more than the stock/rods pistons. No reason to buy better or stronger ones that will PROBABLY put your rods out of round. - Like the ARP 2000's.- yet many people have posted good luck with those rods and not resizing also. but Like I said, if you have stock pistons/rods, then there's no reason to buy those.
Yes, later model bolts are stronger. I forgot the year GM switched.
I think the rod strengths are the same no matter what year. Haven't verified.
Now that I said all that, watch my rod bolts fail.
Last edited by 95ONE; 03-04-2012 at 09:30 PM.
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03-04-2012, 10:56 PM
#8
You can upgrade to ARP bolts without resizing. This myth is outta hand. Hell, half of anyone who says you have to re-size, doesn't even ask what brand or model # rod bolts!? How can you answer a question to which you don't have the facts? Besides, resizing a cracked cap rod is frowned on from what I'm reading. Also ridiculous and not as easy as many make it out to be. If it's .002 out, then you have to cut that out or more. The expense to machine and put in spec'd out bearings for new bore should be near $250. If you include the $90 for the Bolts, you're close to $350. Just go buy aftermarket rods if that's your choice. I'm sure some people on here will dis-agree. Ask them if they have done this, had their stock rods resized and at what price. Mostly crickets are all you'll get. Or they had a large machinist bill. Or a small bill done by a "friend" I too was confused by this issue. I asked my machinist. He told me everything I just told you. I didn't just take his word for it. I researched this to the bone. Look up my posts. You will see my statements on this and my proof. I bought them and measured with multiple tools, multiple times. Before with stock bolts torqued to spec and after with the ARP. No issues and a torque spec that ends up 3ft lbs more than stock. Exactly the same bore before and after. Nothing to cause alarm.. At all. This was just in my case of course, that's my personal findings.
If you're set on resizing your stock rods, go get quotes from a machine shop to know exactly the price you're looking at for some re-worked stock rods (thinner) with not much of a bolt upgrade.
If you feel like I might have a clue, -who knows, maybe I don't- just some random dude on the internet, then Use the cheapest option ARP. (ARP 134-6006) Those will hold more than the stock/rods pistons. No reason to buy better or stronger ones that will PROBABLY put your rods out of round. - Like the ARP 2000's.- yet many people have posted good luck with those rods and not resizing also. but Like I said, if you have stock pistons/rods, then there's no reason to buy those.
Yes, later model bolts are stronger. I forgot the year GM switched.
I think the rod strengths are the same no matter what year. Haven't verified.
Now that I said all that, watch my rod bolts fail.
If you're set on resizing your stock rods, go get quotes from a machine shop to know exactly the price you're looking at for some re-worked stock rods (thinner) with not much of a bolt upgrade.
If you feel like I might have a clue, -who knows, maybe I don't- just some random dude on the internet, then Use the cheapest option ARP. (ARP 134-6006) Those will hold more than the stock/rods pistons. No reason to buy better or stronger ones that will PROBABLY put your rods out of round. - Like the ARP 2000's.- yet many people have posted good luck with those rods and not resizing also. but Like I said, if you have stock pistons/rods, then there's no reason to buy those.
Yes, later model bolts are stronger. I forgot the year GM switched.
I think the rod strengths are the same no matter what year. Haven't verified.
Now that I said all that, watch my rod bolts fail.
$89 for arp bolts (no resize)
+$4000 (possibly for new shortblock)
$200 for katechs (no issues have been reported)
for that price an those odds I would still do the katechs, maybe its just me though 110 bucks isnt enough for me to take a gamble. If the motor is already apart then I may shoot to have the rods resized with arps if not its the katechs for me...
03-06-2012, 05:47 PM
#9
He said ARP. That's enough, anyone on here can call arp and they will say to you that you should resize the rods, ARP has no money to make here so why would they lie telling you that it needs to be done. And if you do research you will find just as many people on here who spun a bearing shortly after swapping to the arps than people who still have them running and well. So let me weigh the options here
$89 for arp bolts (no resize)
+$4000 (possibly for new shortblock)
$200 for katechs (no issues have been reported)
for that price an those odds I would still do the katechs, maybe its just me though 110 bucks isnt enough for me to take a gamble. If the motor is already apart then I may shoot to have the rods resized with arps if not its the katechs for me...
$89 for arp bolts (no resize)
+$4000 (possibly for new shortblock)
$200 for katechs (no issues have been reported)
for that price an those odds I would still do the katechs, maybe its just me though 110 bucks isnt enough for me to take a gamble. If the motor is already apart then I may shoot to have the rods resized with arps if not its the katechs for me...
To the original Poster, I suggest you call ARP yourself and talk to someone there and find out. If you haven't already spent $200 on the Katechs. - If you get an undefined answer from ARP, or they say Re-size, I say just buy the Katechs. I'm not here to Sell ARP rod bolts, I'm Just posting an opposing view that I have proven to myself. Who knows, maybe I got a great set of rods that were cast on a good batch. (doubt it) It's a personal thing.
EDIT: LOL> just fun. I just called ARP and talked to one of their technicians. He said the basic general statement everyone says on here. "whether its a new stock bolt for your rod or one of ours, always check to see if its out of round and no one should say otherwise." hint hint. NO ONE>.... like..... (insert popular name here) He didn't say their name, but I did just before. Cracks me up. He actually said what I said above though about different batches of rods. Some move more than others. Proof to follow the quoted statement above. This is what I did. My rods did NOT go out of round with the ARP. He said that's great, then don't re-size. He didn't say I HAD to resize after I installed them because they were not out of round, and in fact did not change in any way at all.
Hope this helps. or just confuses. Or Whatever.
Last edited by 95ONE; 03-06-2012 at 06:02 PM.
03-06-2012, 06:05 PM
#10
Here are the instructions for the 2000 series.http://arpinstructions.com/instructions/234-6301.pdf again they say to be resized. If I was building a motor with new bearings then I probably wouldn't worry about resizing. However on an engine where your reusing the old bearings and keeping the original shape is critical to the pre-worn bearing then I'm going with katechs.
No offense to anyone who does different but the extra 100 bucks is the best insurance. Some people install arp's and go thousands of miles with no issues other spin bearings 2500 miles later. I have never heard of an issue with katechs.
If you ever have the chance to see all 3 (arp, stock, katech) together then you will notice the arps are a tad fatter and heavier while the katechs are just as light as the originals and look pretty much the exact same.
Also just to add after reading what the tech said... I'm not arguing with checking the rods, but with stock bolts or katechs you should never need to worry about the rod being out of round as long as the bearings havent been spun before. The arp's have a larger clamping force than stock and thus have the potential to warp the bore unlike new stockers or katechs and THAT'S the sole reason to check with the arps...
No offense to anyone who does different but the extra 100 bucks is the best insurance. Some people install arp's and go thousands of miles with no issues other spin bearings 2500 miles later. I have never heard of an issue with katechs.
If you ever have the chance to see all 3 (arp, stock, katech) together then you will notice the arps are a tad fatter and heavier while the katechs are just as light as the originals and look pretty much the exact same.
Also just to add after reading what the tech said... I'm not arguing with checking the rods, but with stock bolts or katechs you should never need to worry about the rod being out of round as long as the bearings havent been spun before. The arp's have a larger clamping force than stock and thus have the potential to warp the bore unlike new stockers or katechs and THAT'S the sole reason to check with the arps...
03-06-2012, 06:33 PM
#11
I don't have the ARP package in front of me, but the instructions recommended resizing.
There are many folks here who did the upgrade without resizing, and did not have difficulty.
Based on this, I bypassed the instructions and did not resize.
Right now, I'm dealing with a couple of spun rod bearings and a toasted crank.
From now on, I will pay strict attention to the instructions.
There are many folks here who did the upgrade without resizing, and did not have difficulty.
Based on this, I bypassed the instructions and did not resize.
Right now, I'm dealing with a couple of spun rod bearings and a toasted crank.
From now on, I will pay strict attention to the instructions.
03-07-2012, 08:45 AM
#12
It appears that the Katech bolts will not need re-sizing and the ARP bolts will.
This is as per their maker's instructions and the history of users here.
The Katech bolts look like a nice upgrade to a somewhat stock engine-perhaps with bolt-ons or a cam.
Anything beyond that in power gains should trigger a lower end strength upgrade which would include ARP rod bolts-if not forged aftermarket rods.
This is as per their maker's instructions and the history of users here.
The Katech bolts look like a nice upgrade to a somewhat stock engine-perhaps with bolt-ons or a cam.
Anything beyond that in power gains should trigger a lower end strength upgrade which would include ARP rod bolts-if not forged aftermarket rods.
03-07-2012, 09:46 AM
#14
I don't have the ARP package in front of me, but the instructions recommended resizing.
There are many folks here who did the upgrade without resizing, and did not have difficulty.
Based on this, I bypassed the instructions and did not resize.
Right now, I'm dealing with a couple of spun rod bearings and a toasted crank.
From now on, I will pay strict attention to the instructions.
There are many folks here who did the upgrade without resizing, and did not have difficulty.
Based on this, I bypassed the instructions and did not resize.
Right now, I'm dealing with a couple of spun rod bearings and a toasted crank.
From now on, I will pay strict attention to the instructions.
So it is certainly a matter of which bolt series you purchase. What I personally found on ARP's lowest end rod bolt was that it was right in line with stock torque. I tested every way I could which was stretch and torque checking for bore changes. They seemed to match all the stock specs, just a stronger bolt.
The details are import in what I am saying here. ARP themselves. ARP THEMSELVES said you do NOT have to re-size the bore AS LONG AS THE BORE IS CHECKED PROPERLY AND NOT OUT OF SPEC. You do NOT have to re-size the bore if YOU check it and it is NOT out of spec, and you CHECKED IT PROPERLY.
All bolts should have these instructions. Including Katechs.
Unfortuntely gMAG did not check the rod after torquing down the bolts and got bit. That really, really sucks. Furthermore, I suggest if you buy the KATECHS, that you STILL check for out of round specs on the Rod after tightening. properly.
Last edited by 95ONE; 03-07-2012 at 05:07 PM.
04-09-2012, 08:23 PM
#16
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i am doing a complete rebuild on my 2006 chevy truck 1500 with a 5.3 in it.. i have new rod bearings new main bearings, turned crank (to be on the safe side), new cam, tr228, chromoly push rods, beehive valve springs, stock aluminum heads decked 30,000.. and i need to know if arp bolts will be ok to use.. after reading all these post.. do i go with arp which i can get tomorrow for 80$$, order stock ones from gm which take 2 weeks to get for 70$, or spend the extra 100$$ if i have to to get katech.. whats the smartest choice to go with in my situation??? whats yalls inputs.. and by the way im going with stock pistons and stock rods that came in the motor my machinest told me there was nothing wrong with them to have to change them and spend the money that wasnt needed for the lil upgrade/set up that im going with
04-10-2012, 07:50 PM
#19
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I imagine the main factor to whether the ARP bolts that is any of the 3 grades need to hone the rods depends on which method they use to torque them ,,,,,if they just use the lube and tq with a tq wrench to 40 or 45lbs. then probably most of the time not honing rods will be fine ,,,,,,,,,but I imagine if You use the stretch gauge like they recommend at ARP then yes honing and proper bearings is most of the time needed to have reliability .
For most if not almost all poeple on here the Katechs probably do make the most sense . Tho there are a few like Myself that enjoy , when time permits fabricating tools and coming up with ingenious ways of gettin it done at least good enough to pass and last if not in some instances last longer . I took some oak and turned some round pieces on a lathe to My calculated sizes and then glued sand paper to the pieces in different grits and honed My rods Myself ,,,,,,,,,,are they perfect ? ,,,,,pretty close . Has it taken some time ?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,absolutely . Will it work ?,,,,,,so far no failures on other similar projects . I believe it will work fine ,,,,,but I won't know 4 sure until She's been running 4 a while . BTW I purchased My ARP Sportsman LS1 rod bolts from Scoggin Dickey 4 $70 . Good luck
For most if not almost all poeple on here the Katechs probably do make the most sense . Tho there are a few like Myself that enjoy , when time permits fabricating tools and coming up with ingenious ways of gettin it done at least good enough to pass and last if not in some instances last longer . I took some oak and turned some round pieces on a lathe to My calculated sizes and then glued sand paper to the pieces in different grits and honed My rods Myself ,,,,,,,,,,are they perfect ? ,,,,,pretty close . Has it taken some time ?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,absolutely . Will it work ?,,,,,,so far no failures on other similar projects . I believe it will work fine ,,,,,but I won't know 4 sure until She's been running 4 a while . BTW I purchased My ARP Sportsman LS1 rod bolts from Scoggin Dickey 4 $70 . Good luck
