PuruJones

I'm running an MS4 in a LS6, thinking about sending my heads for the 226cc CNC port job. has anyone tried this combo? and have results?

My concern is clearance if they deck the heads to clean it up, it's uses stock valves, in theory I should be ok, since it's working now. just over thinking.

The ported 243s are in my budget that why i'm going that route vs aftermarket. Goal 480-500 n/a flowing through a ported Fast 92

98WS6Hville

iTrader: (7)

Go with something smaller. My .02.Your powerband on that MS4 is going to honestly suck. It doesn't make power until the upper RPM's.. I think around 4000? You're going to absolutely be a dog before then. Bigger isn't always better. With that said, smart choice with the AI 226cc program.

Here are some options..

Tick Performance cams. Martin REALLY knows his stuff. They seem to be the hottest thing right now. Around 380 bucks for a really kick-*** cam. Of 400 for a custom grind cam. I'm actually about to buy one of their Street Heat Stage 2 cams. With this cam you will get a powerband from 1800 RPM's up. Its sound also matches that of the MS4. If not, better than.

Ed Curtis Cam. Custom grind. 800 bucks for something that will match your system exactly spec-to-spec. Very popular guy, also knows his stuff very well.

If you don't take my advice and still go with the MS4, you will need VERY low gears, 4.10 or higher (which will kill your mpg) to make up for that lost power under 4,000 RPM's. That MS4 cam will want to spin to 7,000 RPM's, which, you have to question how long your motor will even last if you spin if that high (not very long). You will also need a VERY stout tune. You will also need a very stout intake manifold. Your system as a whole needs to compensate for each part. You are putting a system together. The bigger the cam, the more everything must match and compensate for each other.

Look over some Tony Mamo posts. This guy is also very knowledgeable. He's done many builds for himself, put together a ton of systems for customers, and can answer any questions you might have.

Build it once, do it right.

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Edit: Because I did not see the part about 480-500 whp.

460 is obtainable with a 346 motor. I'm not quite so sure about the 480-500. With a 383, it would be much easier. Here's what I am about to put together for my build. Hope this helps. Should be good for around 460whp.

Tick Performance Street Heat Stage 2 cam.
Fast 102 Tony Mamo Ported.
Fast Fuel Injectors 42#
Fast Big Mouth 102 Throttle Body
Fast Fuel Line Conversion Kit
LS2 Water Pump
Fast Toys 104mm Lid
TSP 100MM MAF
Chrs1313 Ram-Air
SLP Air lid Plug
AI Heads 226cc Program (243 Heads)
98 Racetronix Fuel Pump
H-Pipe 2.5" (Flowmaster U-Fit Kit)
Magnaflow Mufflers 14419
Comp Trunion Upgrade Rockers
Chromoly Pushrods (spelling)
4.10 Richmond Gears
Bilstein Shocks and Struts
MGW Short Throw Shifter
Stuck on lifters.. still reading up on those... so many choices. Morel 5206 looks pretty awesome.
Brian Tooley Dual Valve Springs
Monster Stage 2 Clutch. I CANNOT stress how important a clutch and shocks are. I absolutely beat the crap out of mine this weekend at the track and I've only got 370whp. With 460? I don't even want to think what would happen
Tuning. Vengeance Racing.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

The AI heads are a good choice. They move serious air at low lifts and with great velocity due to the 2.00" intake valve. I think you can get by with a little bit of a mill .015" maybe?

BTW, he already has an MS4. I don't think you should try to talk him out of it. If he wants more power and better drivability, I think going with something custom and spec'd along with the heads would work better.

But the MS4 makes power, and the AI heads can be built to support the LSK lobes without much trouble.

Run it.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

The intake tract specified above is what you want. The exhaust isn't - I'd run a dual 3". Neither is the cam for 480+. The MS4 is actually what you want for 480+ and exhaust would be the Kooks 1-7/8" HVMC headers with the Kooks 3" true duals. Money, but the exhaust setups on these cars, factory, and cheap aftermarket suck ***.

98WS6Hville

iTrader: (7)

Shame on me. Should have read the post much better. 4.10's will really help him out in this situation, and his fast 92 intake combined with those heads.

98WS6Hville

iTrader: (7)

I knew I was leaving something out of that long list. I've actually got the TSP 1-7/8" Long Tube Headers right now. The 3" duals I've really wanted to go with, but people have told me I'd be an idiot for going that route because of clearance.

Does the MS4 really make that much more power than a Street Heat Stage 2 Cam? Seems like the three things that you sacrifice when going with such a large cam are: daily driveability, piston-to-valve clearance, and where you make power. Another thing, wouldn't you need to start building the bottom end when running around 500whp? Yes, these blocks will handle 1000+ horsepower but you'd need to build the bottom end first. I've been doing a lot of reading on here lately. Just call me out if I've mispoken about anything. I've seen a few of your posts, enough to know that you know what you're talking about.

Roarin_8

iTrader: (5)

The crank can easily handle 500rwhp IIRC, the rod bolts won't.

PuruJones

Thanks for the tip, but yes I already have the MS4 in a C5 Z06 weighing 3075lbs with a M12 T56, 3:42s, so it's not a direct comparison, I'm interested in heads and if anyone tried this setup. I also already have the Ported Fast 92( not installed). I have 50K+ miles on my cam only setup, I understand the pros and cons

98WS6Hville

iTrader: (7)

To OP, here's a great post about rod bolts and whatnot. Very informative.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...oing-come.html

Here's what I've seen number wise from using these heads:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...k-results.html

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

If you're hell bent on going with the MS4 cam, then do the AI 232cc heads. I've talked with Phil about the difference between the 226cc and the 232cc AI 243 heads and you will not sacrafice any lower RPM power/torque by going with the 232cc program and the 232cc program will yield more power in the upper RPM range, which is where you are going to live if you go with the MS4 cam. If it were me, I'd have Martin at Tick Performance hook you up with a custom cam, or point you toward one of the Tick shelf cams.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Don't do rod bolts. You have an LS6. It'll handle 7000 RPM fine. Rod Bolts are for like 7400 RPM. Plus, once you distort the end caps on the stock cracked rods, you're asking for more trouble.

If you want to go with rod bolts, you'd need oversized bearings. I had the Federal Mogul PN at one time. I have a thread on it here if you search my name.

And yes, the MS4 uses a much more aggressive lobe than the Street Heat 2, LSK vs LSL, and has a ton more overlap. Both contribute to power. It's also a larger cam with 9 degrees more duration on the intake side.

The FAST 92 will work well with the AI heads. Phil recommends not porting them, but as long as your runners line up well, you'll be fine.

1999BlueTA

iTrader: (34)

I agree go with the 232's milled a bit!!!

maxpower_454

iTrader: (7)

Sounds like a good combo to me. I agree with the above, go with the slightly bigger 232cc (I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't since it's the same cost) and just stick with the MS4 since it's already installed. Phil will let you know how much you can mill and still be safe on PTV but I would just go with .040" gaskets, roughly 60cc chambers, and flycut. The added compression will help out the low/mid on the cam and it will scream up top!