SilverSmoke

Long story short, #7 cracked a ring and orig shop supposedly fixed it and looked over rest of engine and said all ok, costing me a few $k. Drove 200mi and found they missed 3 other cylinders!! Shop is out of business. Been saving money for some time to get engine fixed... again. Doing ton research, seems may be a little more cost effective rebuilding then getting a short block shipped in from TSP or Thompson.

Car is NA having ETP 215 heads with Patriot Extreme springs, titanium retainers, ported FAST 90/90, torquer II cam, older CTSV lifters, cometic 0.04 (or maybe was 0.03?), running high compression, 4.10 gears, and supportive mods. Heads were added in 2008, only maybe 1,500mi on them. Car puts down ~470hp/420tq on dynojet.

Current shop is doing the right thing and tearing down the engine. They want to install the following:
- new pistons/rings (obvious one) - Manley
- rods - Manley
- lifters - LS7
- cam (cam lobe is scored somehow) - custom and bigger than tqrII (maybe towards tqrIII or tick torqemaxx)
- new springs
- rod bearings - clevite
- main bearing
- melling oil pump
- main bearing
- rear main seal
- All gaskets (FAST, rear housing, valve cover, oil pan, valley cover, water pump, front crank seal, head gasket (stock)

Service they want to perform:
- valve job
- hone block with plate

Inspection shows the cylinder walls to be clean (as soon as I saw smoke I shut down the car and never started it again) with no scoring (lucky!!). Very small amount of shavings found in oil.

The quotes for engine removal/installation are a bit high I feel, and the honing, engine assembly, and valve job add to the high price IMO. Over $4100 in labor. Only half that was originally quoted before they tore into the engine. Total job is about $8k.

I don't have $8k in the bank. Budget provided to shop was $4.5k. Needless to say I need to trim costs wherever I can, but while still mitigating some risk with the strength and durability of the engine. To me you can be safe and build a tank, or be safe mitigating risks.

It looks like I can get wiseco piston/ring set, saving $200. Research on this site is showing it may be safe to use stock rods (would replace 3 rods on the bad cyl's just in case of stress issues). This should cut down $400. Engine will spin to 6.8krpm. I believe I can reuse the cometic gaskets which doesn't save me much since they want to use stock. Not sure a valve job is really warranted since they looked fine 200mi prior? That would save $275.

If my cylinder walls are fairly clean, or clean, do I need a manual hone?

Is my thinking along the right path? Need some expert/experienced advice on what I should or should not do, and suggestions on parts to use for a target of 500rwhp if possible NA.

Knowing I need a new cam and lifters there's a limit to what can be shaved to get close to $4.5k target, but right now the parts list alone is $3.5k.

Appreciate everyone's eyes for the long post and any help provided, thanks!

Here's to football season

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

Having a machine shop build you an engine is not a cost effective way no matter how you look at it. Labor is expensive as it should be...removing an engine is a job in itself. But cutting corners is not a way to do it.

Is there any particular reason why you are opting to not use factory parts? Your power goals can be done with a stock foundation.

I suggest you find yourself a low mileage 6.0 iron short block. You can get one of these for probably $1500 maybe a little more or less. Bolt on your goodies and go!

Or sell off all your stuff, and buy a complete engine from Blue-Print on Summit Racing.com

The only way I would have a machine shop build me an engine is if I wanted particular brand parts. Fully assembled mass production engines is going to close down the local machine shops one day. They are just darn better deals out there.

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

Or a new 5.3

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3069-LS1-LS2-LS3-L92-4-8L-5-3L-6-0L-5-7L-Cast-Iron-Short-Block-Gen-III-OR-IV-/190484037719?pt=Race_Car_Parts&hash=item2c59bbc057&vxp=mtr

SilverSmoke

It's a local speed shop doing the work, not a machine shop. They've been around for a while and ppl seem to really trust and like their work.

I would do all stock parts, but I was informed that the stock pistons tend to break the rings on high hp or compression engines. I figure why not just upgrade the pistons and rings for $100 less than GM stockers.

The car came with the LS6 block, so I'd like to try and stick with that if possible and keep the car matching. The linked 5.3 is nice, awesome price, but not too sure about a 5.3l in the car. When I hear iron, I think of weight and want to keep the car light and nimble. It's not a quarter mile racer, but set up for the turns and straight line.

Dumb question, but when you say find a 6.0, you mean an LS2 block? Haven't been following any of the new cars/engines since the LS6.

Titanium

iTrader: (6)

I think when he said 6.0 he meant an LQ9 as in the escalades etc. Both the 5.3L LQ4 and the 6.0L lq9 are iron

SilverSmoke

I found this from Thompson:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LS1-LS6-aluminum-short-block-King-racing-main-and-rod-bearings-New-TMS-pistons/281137769411?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D163%26meid%3D1086351935833095390%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D190726428890%26
Maybe a good backup option???

SilverSmoke

Gotcha. Just for my own information, not that I'm swaying that way, what would be the reason for going with a 5.3/6.0 iron block over LS1/6 other than harder to make it go boom and I guess price?

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

Cost. You can get an Iron LS for considerably less money. Depending on what you are doing with the car, the extra weight wouldn't matter.

SilverSmoke

Ok cool.

I looked at Thomson, and if going for their rebuilt 5.7 block ($2500 shipped) I'd save about $500 bucks vs my option 2 scenario which would be to replace 3 rods (on bum pistons), and wiseco piston/ring set. Compare my option 2 to option 1 (which is the original quote from the shop), would be $500 more.

Not finding much differences in cost unfortunately in what I broke down in excel.

2000PewterT/A

Just to clarify both LQ4 and LQ9 are iron 6.0's.

PREDATOR-Z

IMO the Thompson option would be you best bet. No hidden costs and no shortcuts. Thompson has the knowledge, and parts flow to do a good job.
What you calculate on paper is never what it comes out at a shop. If you go with Thompson, make sure you get all new plugs for proper oil control.

redtan

iTrader: (5)

Did they tell you why the price almost doubled from the original estimate?

I can see an extra hour or two here and there being added for snags they might hit along the way, but twice the cost seems extreme...

SilverSmoke

I haven't heard from them yet. They are busy as hell, as there are very few specialists in the area now. I'm not chasing it either, giving me time to research my options and save up $ from each paycheck I can.

Regarding my question on honing the cylinders and valve job. Is it really needed? That's like $700 right there I can shave off...