Animal

Greetings from across the pond!

I'm currently building a spaceframed Opel Manta (a couple of photos, and after much deliberation, I've decided to got for either an LS1 or an LS6.

My plan is to import a crate engine, dry sump it (I don't have the clearance for a big sump, and I want to avoid oil surge at any costs), and get it running as a standard engine. Once I've got the car reliable and reasonably sorted, then I want to start tuning the engine.

My problem is that I don't know much about the engines and tuning them. I've been reading up on the engine, and I'm slowly gaining more knowledge. It's a great set of forums you guys have here, by the way!

My main dilemma is what to buy. The LS1 is much cheaper (I've been looking at http://www.gmpartsdepot.com/ for prices.), but I'll have a load more work to do to it/money to spend to get it to an LS6 starting point. The LS6 is a bit more money, but the price includes much less for more money.

I've also got the option of buying the bits individually and building a tuned engine from scratch. I'd go for an LS6 block and some CNC'd LS6 heads, and go for a steel crank and rods etc. I'm less keen on this as I want the engine to be reliable out of the box, as there'll be loads of issues to fix on the chassis before it's reliable and having engine issues will slow the process down and make it much more difficult.

What would you guys go for and why?

Another question, does the Gen3 engine family have the same bellhousing as the Gen2 family. The reason is that I've got a Borg Warner T5 box which I want to use, and I can get hold of a small block Chevy bellhousing for it. I just don't know if it'll fit the LS1/6.

Are there any dry sump kits available in for the engine, or will I need to fabricate my own?

Animal

No one?

Hysteria

The bolt pattern is the same on the bell housing, it is just missing one bolt hole because of the cylinder location. It will actually bolt up but may have a problem finding a clutch setup to work properly because I think the spacing on the clutch depth is different from gen II to III but I may be wrong. I would run the LS6 crate engine.

Tommy Tucker

My LS1 is dry-sumped using a package from ARE (drysump.com).
Although the serpentine geometry required some tweaking the set-up gives very good oil pressure and the engine is very low in my chassis.

If you've got a little bit of room you could go with the C5 sump which is already low profile (a lot lower than the F-body).

There are a few options on the crate engines. You can get short and long blocks. The factory gear is very robust. If you're going to swap out lots of items I would go for the LS1 if you need the loom/ecu or the short LS6 if you are going to swap out all bolt-ons and the cam, sump, heads etc. All depends what numbers you're aiming at.

You still won't see me for dust!!
Good luck with your project.

Phoenix 5.7

iTrader: (7)

im with Tommy, if ur planning on heads and other stuff down the road, then go LS1. If ur planning on keeping a ls6 stock, then go ls6. Im not sure however if u can get a ls6 with the computer. i think the gm crate ls6 might only have the engine and no electronics. Check Gm Goodwrench Crate Engines for all the info on the crate engines. 25534322 LS1 Engine Kit is the engine u want, it comes with the fuel injectors, ecu, etc. The only ls6 i can find is a service engine without the intake manifold, ecu, etc. 12498399 LS6 Service Engine with Camaro Oil Pan Kit is the part.

technical

What's the price difference between the LS1 and the LS6 crate? I'd go LS1 with a cam and stock heads if the price diff is more than $800, basically the price of a cam/springs kit.

Phoenix 5.7

iTrader: (7)

i think its a few grand, at least 1 grand.

Animal

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the info. I'm not too worried about clutch depth as I'll end up fabricating a hydraulic centre release slave, so I can make it fit when I do that. Great, so I can us my T5 box.

I'm keen on a dry sump setup as I'll be running slicks occationally, and with that much grip, it's the best way of avoiding oil starvation. My dry weight should be about the 1900-2000 pound mark as well, by the way. I had a quick look at their website, and it looks great. What stage pump are you running?

A complete LS1 with factory ECU would be the easiest starting point, I guess.

When I start tuning it, I want to get a pair of CNC ported heads, and will probably go for quite an aggressive cam for it, as I'm not at all bothered about bottom end torque. It won't be a daily driver, so I'd like to push it quite far.

I'm also interested in getting it to rev a bit higher. I would guess that the valve train weight is quite a limiting factor due to the big valves. Is that the case, or is it more the piston masses?

I'll also go for an aftermarket ECU and make up my own headers. I've seen an aftermarket crank, steel rods, and pistons on ebay for $2200... at what point is it worth replacing the standard kit?

Thanks again for the responses!

technical

>as I'm not at all bothered about bottom end torque.

Agreed. At 2000lbs, low end torque will most likely be your enemy.

Animal

One last question.... is it easy to run the stock ECU? does it need to interface to anything specific in the car, or is it a case of giving it power, a fuel pump relay, and taking a rev counter feed from it?

Phoenix 5.7

iTrader: (7)

the crate ls1 with the ecu is designed to be a drop in engine for any car. It doesn't need any special tuning to run in another car. the only thing is that the ecu is programmed to run with a 4l60e auto, and would require reprogramming for ur standard.

Scooter70

iTrader: (1)

For the harness, it usually needs to be modified to operate stand-alone. Contact Speartech (click on thier ad over on the right------->)

He did my harness and I'm very satisfied with it. Come over and check out the "Conversions & Hybrids" section of this forum. We've done some pretty cool stuff, putting LS1s in everything from Sandrail dune buggies to early Corvettes and Camaros to Cobra replicas.

-Matt

antz01ta

iTrader: (3)

if you wanna use your borg warner buy a lakewood bellhousing, it's sfi approved and will bolt up to the ls1

Animal

Thanks for all the info.

What's involved with the reprogramming of the ecu so I can use it with a manual?

Oh, one other question, would a flywheel from a gen2 engine fit the LS1.

Many thanks!