MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results.
04-15-2003, 08:59 PM
#1
MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. 2.08 valves, LS6 cores.....3.90 bore
<img src="http://www.nolke.com/syty/nextphase/flow.jpg" alt=" - " />
I have no reason to believe that ARE hasnt gotten their head porting area in order lately. This is a credit to MTI rather than a dig on ARE.
Heads are going on a 387 all-bore shortblock MTI is also building for me.
I am, as I have been since I contacted MTI, a very very happy customer. It humors me that people find MTI expensive compared to others. Net out, these guys are a fantastic bargain.
chris
<img src="http://www.nolke.com/syty/nextphase/flow.jpg" alt=" - " />
I have no reason to believe that ARE hasnt gotten their head porting area in order lately. This is a credit to MTI rather than a dig on ARE.
Heads are going on a 387 all-bore shortblock MTI is also building for me.
I am, as I have been since I contacted MTI, a very very happy customer. It humors me that people find MTI expensive compared to others. Net out, these guys are a fantastic bargain.
chris
04-15-2003, 09:48 PM
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Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. Those are impressive results.The MTI port will work better with ANY cam. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
04-15-2003, 09:48 PM
#3
Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by theblur98ss:
<strong> The heads flow better for a moderate lift cam but if you're running a high lift the heads really fall off after 550 lift. The old ARE port job would work better for the cam in my engine. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">the old ARE intake only flows better from roughly .575 higher. What portion of the time is your valve lift above .575? 10%? less probably. In any case, the rest of the time the MTI intake would clobber the ARE port, and the ARE exhaust port is just plain restictive. At any lift.
<strong> The heads flow better for a moderate lift cam but if you're running a high lift the heads really fall off after 550 lift. The old ARE port job would work better for the cam in my engine. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">the old ARE intake only flows better from roughly .575 higher. What portion of the time is your valve lift above .575? 10%? less probably. In any case, the rest of the time the MTI intake would clobber the ARE port, and the ARE exhaust port is just plain restictive. At any lift.
04-15-2003, 09:55 PM
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Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by theblur98ss:
<strong> The old ARE port job would work better for the cam in my engine. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, it wouldnt.
<strong> The old ARE port job would work better for the cam in my engine. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, it wouldnt.
04-15-2003, 10:04 PM
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Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. I'm a tad bit surprised by the falloff too. I was under the impression that LS6 heads did not exhibit falloff in the mid/upper .5xx range like the LS1 heads typically do.
Of course, slap an LS6 intake on there and the airflow characteristics change anyway.
As for the ARE line being better, <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> it's all about the area under the curve. And there is MUCH more area under that MTI curve.
-Andrew
Of course, slap an LS6 intake on there and the airflow characteristics change anyway.
As for the ARE line being better, <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> it's all about the area under the curve. And there is MUCH more area under that MTI curve.
-Andrew
04-15-2003, 10:24 PM
#6
Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. Andrew...Do I remember you from Syclone stuff too?
yeah that falloff is odd. Maybe I'll make sure the exhaust port is still a "D" design <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Im ok with it falloff or not. Im going to use an MTI X1 cam on a 114 LSA to get mad streetability with the 387, which is .591/.574 lift at the valve. So all is good.
chris
(whoop!)
yeah that falloff is odd. Maybe I'll make sure the exhaust port is still a "D" design <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Im ok with it falloff or not. Im going to use an MTI X1 cam on a 114 LSA to get mad streetability with the 387, which is .591/.574 lift at the valve. So all is good.
chris
(whoop!)
04-16-2003, 10:07 AM
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Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. Very nice results!!
This is not the first flow sheet I have seen showing the terrible flow of the older ARE heads.
This is not the first flow sheet I have seen showing the terrible flow of the older ARE heads.
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04-16-2003, 11:28 AM
#8
Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. Those flow almost as good as the 6.0L heads that Brent did for me.
That's ok I guess.
EDIT: I'm also running a 2.055 valve, and my heads flow all the way up to .700 lift. I wonder what those heads do at .700?
<small>[ April 16, 2003, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: MastaAce98 ]</small>
That's ok I guess.
EDIT: I'm also running a 2.055 valve, and my heads flow all the way up to .700 lift. I wonder what those heads do at .700?
<small>[ April 16, 2003, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: MastaAce98 ]</small>
04-16-2003, 11:48 AM
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Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by theblur98ss:
<strong> The heads flow better for a moderate lift cam but if you're running a high lift the heads really fall off after 550 lift. The old ARE port job would work better for the cam in my engine. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bullshit. The MTI re-port will make more power on any hydraulic cam you can put in an LS1 because the valve spends very little actual time past .550 lift. The low and mid lift flow numbers are much more important. The flow gained under .550 lift MORE than makes up for the earlier flow stall.
<strong> The heads flow better for a moderate lift cam but if you're running a high lift the heads really fall off after 550 lift. The old ARE port job would work better for the cam in my engine. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bullshit. The MTI re-port will make more power on any hydraulic cam you can put in an LS1 because the valve spends very little actual time past .550 lift. The low and mid lift flow numbers are much more important. The flow gained under .550 lift MORE than makes up for the earlier flow stall.
04-16-2003, 02:36 PM
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Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. <img border="0" alt="[worship]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[worship]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> MTI
04-16-2003, 02:50 PM
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Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. I can't believe someone would look at this graph and say they believe the ARE head would do better at high lifts....
04-16-2003, 04:16 PM
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Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. The MTI midlift numbers would absolutely crush the ARE old port design in power in every way shape and form. <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" />
04-17-2003, 12:12 AM
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Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. I gotta do the same thing to get mine to flow <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
<small>[ April 16, 2003, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Dave@Ramchargers ]</small>
<small>[ April 16, 2003, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Dave@Ramchargers ]</small>
04-17-2003, 12:29 AM
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Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Visceral:
<strong> Andrew...Do I remember you from Syclone stuff too?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yessir, that's me. And I'm still taking care of the SyTy crowd, tho I'm not on the list anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
My (in progress) 2.02 valved GTP LS6 heads don't flatline on flow until about .65" - they stall just shy of .700. And the cam is big enough... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
-Andrew
<strong> Andrew...Do I remember you from Syclone stuff too?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yessir, that's me. And I'm still taking care of the SyTy crowd, tho I'm not on the list anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
My (in progress) 2.02 valved GTP LS6 heads don't flatline on flow until about .65" - they stall just shy of .700. And the cam is big enough... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
-Andrew
04-17-2003, 12:45 AM
#15
Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Camaroholic:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Visceral:
<strong> Andrew...Do I remember you from Syclone stuff too?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yessir, that's me. And I'm still taking care of the SyTy crowd, tho I'm not on the list anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
My (in progress) 2.02 valved GTP LS6 heads don't flatline on flow until about .65" - they stall just shy of .700. And the cam is big enough... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
-Andrew </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I dont think theres a vehicle I miss owning more than that Sy. Im going to have to get another one soon.
My heads are 2.08 valves, and while they have been ported and the combustion chambers done for 4.125" bore, they used a 3.90 bore to flow the heads. This *may* have had something to do with it? Dunno. For my super-streetable 387, it will work greaaaat. I took a ride in my father-in-law's 02 c5 and I miss the days of power without too many compromises... so Im going for a smaller cam for the ci.
chris
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Visceral:
<strong> Andrew...Do I remember you from Syclone stuff too?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yessir, that's me. And I'm still taking care of the SyTy crowd, tho I'm not on the list anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
My (in progress) 2.02 valved GTP LS6 heads don't flatline on flow until about .65" - they stall just shy of .700. And the cam is big enough... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
-Andrew </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I dont think theres a vehicle I miss owning more than that Sy. Im going to have to get another one soon.
My heads are 2.08 valves, and while they have been ported and the combustion chambers done for 4.125" bore, they used a 3.90 bore to flow the heads. This *may* have had something to do with it? Dunno. For my super-streetable 387, it will work greaaaat. I took a ride in my father-in-law's 02 c5 and I miss the days of power without too many compromises... so Im going for a smaller cam for the ci.
chris
04-17-2003, 11:47 AM
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Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. Looks like MTI has improved since they did Raughammers LS6 heads.
<img src="http://www.lockon.com/people/photoalbums/images/15714/78/2%2DLS1vsL2%2Ejpg" alt=" - " />
<small>[ April 17, 2003, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Messiah ]</small>
<img src="http://www.lockon.com/people/photoalbums/images/15714/78/2%2DLS1vsL2%2Ejpg" alt=" - " />
<small>[ April 17, 2003, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Messiah ]</small>
04-17-2003, 05:21 PM
#17
Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think you answered yourself there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I bet if someone took a set of current design ARE's 4.125 bore heads and flowed them on a 3.905 bore and compared them to a set of MTI's over a 1 year old 3.905 bore designed heads you would see a big difference.
I think your combo should run great when it is finished BTW
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> </strong>[/QUOTE]
It would be really nice... I havent had a combo that *ran* for long in 2 years. I really hope that this one not only runs, but runs great. I almost wouldnt know what to do with the working car. I'd have to learn to drive it all over again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
chris
<strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think you answered yourself there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I bet if someone took a set of current design ARE's 4.125 bore heads and flowed them on a 3.905 bore and compared them to a set of MTI's over a 1 year old 3.905 bore designed heads you would see a big difference.
I think your combo should run great when it is finished BTW
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> </strong>[/QUOTE]
It would be really nice... I havent had a combo that *ran* for long in 2 years. I really hope that this one not only runs, but runs great. I almost wouldnt know what to do with the working car. I'd have to learn to drive it all over again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
chris
04-17-2003, 06:57 PM
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Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. I have a set of 2000 ARE heads. The flow picked up about 20 cfm intake and exhaust after a valve job. I think that there port work was great, but they weren't doing anything with the valves back then. My 5.3L with 2.055/1.60 flow 310/236.4 at .600 lift, and max out at .625 lift with a little more flow. Just get a valve job on the old design, and they will really pick up.
04-17-2003, 08:18 PM
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Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. I dont know. My early ARE heads seem OK to me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Why dont some of you MTI cars bring it on!
I don't see any listed in the Pure Street N/A Auto class.
Oh I forgot, they won't be able to put up their magic Texas winter #'s. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Why dont some of you MTI cars bring it on!
I don't see any listed in the Pure Street N/A Auto class.
Oh I forgot, they won't be able to put up their magic Texas winter #'s. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
04-18-2003, 12:26 AM
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Re: MTI re-port of older ARE LS6 heads yeilds excellent results. I am having a new set of ARE heads flowed if anyone is interested. Should have results by next week.