radkon

iTrader: (2)

OK so my TR224 Cam kit came in today and as I was researching I found a few opinions on how to properly degree it on install. Am I safe enough just making sure cyl #1 is at TDC and lining up the cam and crank dots or do I need to get a degree wheel and go all out?

Bigrob339

iTrader: (9)

Its Up To You, Not Necessary But Nice To Know Where The Cams Specs(int. Cl) Comes In At In The Car, Compared To What It Says On The Cam Card. I Think Degree Cam In The Car Is A Pain In The ***, And To Many Varibles Going On At The Same Time, But It Can Be Done And Most Of The I Do It, But Depending On Size Of The Cam, I Would More Worried About Piston To Valve Clearance. .080 Min Int. .100 Min. Exh. Good Luck!

Lithium

iTrader: (47)

Dot to Dot.

Shu

iTrader: (2)

^^^^^

smask04C5

iTrader: (1)

While you have it apart, degree it

Rick@Synergy

iTrader: (5)

always degree a camshaft.

Rick

wrencher

iTrader: (2)

I agree I always degree it in. Check the grind on the cam & the install. Lot better than just assuming it's right.

radkon

iTrader: (2)

I've got a full cam spec sheet from TR and it has been checked.
A buddy from ls1gto.com is going to let me borrow his degree kit but I don't want to take the head off to do it so this should be fun.

Any tips?

Those that have degreed theirs do you advance or retard it at all or just pop it in straight up?

Rick@Synergy

iTrader: (5)

You dont have to pull the head to degree it. It may be easier, but it can be done with the heads on.

Rick

radkon

iTrader: (2)

OK so I'm starting to get in over my head. If I want to properly degree it I will need an adjustable double roller set? If I simply reuse the stock timing chain do I need to bother with all the degreeing? or just set her up dot to dot?

777

iTrader: (21)

Nothing helps like a sticky.

Here's the sticky - https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/327734-cam-guide.html

Here's the info that you are looking for -

Degreeing a camshaft when the engine is still in a car or with the cylinder heads installed is generally more time consuming and more difficult. Comp's Sportsman Degree kit, PN 4796, is perfect for in-car or head-on degreeing.




Locating TDC with the cylinder head on requires a spark plug type piston stop. For Gen III and IV engines (or most any 14mm spark plug head), Comp's PN 4795 unit works fine.



The piston stop screws in the spark plug hole and the center of the stop is screwed further down into the combustion chamber to provide a stop for the piston. Remember the stop is only for touching the piston, not poking holes in it! Disconnect the battery before even thinking about using these. If the engine is rotated via the starter, you'll either rip threads out of the head or poke a hole in the piston.




The smaller diameter degree wheel pays dividends when used in the car. The larger wheel simply won't fit.



Since the Gen III and IV engines use a metric threaded valve cover bolt, you'll need to make a custom fixture mounting stud. A piece of 5/8-inch tubing, some washers and an extra long metric bolt will do the trick if you can't fabricate something.




The head-on cam fixture mounts using a valve cover bolt hole in the head--pretty slick. It is possible to align the indicator with the lifter, as shown, but it is very difficult to see the contact point between the two.




The alternative to setting the indicator on the lifter is setting the tip on the valve retainer. First, it is necessary to swap in some light checking springs, so the lifters don't collapse when the engine is rotated. Comp's PN 4758-2 springs do the job. Degreeing is completed the same way as described out of the car with the heads off. A little more patience is required when doing it in the car. Remember to double check all measurements, mistakes are easy to make. And lube up that number one intake lobe now!

radkon

iTrader: (2)

Thanks but I have read through that several times and am still at a bit of a loss. It seems most simply line up their cam dot to dot and let her rip. I know for the most part you'll get good results from this. For the sake of argument lets say 90% of what the cam is good for. My questions are as follows:

For those that have gone through the trouble of accurately degreeing was it worth it? Did you see gains over folks who didn't? (HP or safety)

In order to fully degree my cam do I need to replace the stock timing set with an adjustable one?

777

iTrader: (21)

Yes you need an adjustable timing set. Yes there are gains to be had, but it is more for safety. I know of one person that gained over 10rwhp (I think, contact him to know exactly how much) by degreeing. This was the tsp231/237 cam. Name is SouthFL.02.SS. Doing dot to dot get's it close. But if the cam is actually like a 231.2/237.3 or even worse off, you are not closing/opeing the valves at the correct times. This little bit of difference can affect the engines performance since the engine uses both the intake and exhaust degrees to move each other out of the cylinder. If it's not dead on the exhaust won't be "scavenged" out as effeciently thus producing less power.

radkon

iTrader: (2)

Thanks thats the kind of info I'm looking for!

Cam doctor specs read:

223.8 Intake
223.6 Exhaust
.562 lift Intake
.562 lift Exhaust
111.7 LSA

Pretty close to the TR224 specs.
Any comments on setting this bad boy up?

777

iTrader: (21)

hmm, not really. You don't HAVE to degree it. It's just nice to know you have it in there perfect and are getting the best out of it. For the average joe dot to dot is fine. I didn't degree either one of my cams. When I do a complete build up though, it will be degreed.

radkon

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the advice. The reality is I don't want to drop the coin for a fully adjustable timing set so I'll live with it lined up dot to dot. I'm doing it in the car and not pulling the heads so that would make degreeing it even more difficult from what I've read. I'm not trying to build an all out drag car and I won't be disappointed if I don't get every last drop of power out of it.

MadBill

99 point something % of cams can be just bolted in and be within a degree or two and probably 5 HP of where they should/could be. However, its the last fraction you need to watch out for! A number of years ago, we installed a cam from one of the top half dozen grinders in my buddy's 455 Buick, dot to dot. Just to learn how it was done, he asked about degreeing a cam, so we ran through the process. Nothing worked out. After several tries, we determined that it was ground twenty eight degrees retarded! Imagine what that would do for performance, not to mention exhaust valve to piston clearance. To add insult to injury, the cam card illustration only made sense if viewing the cam from the flywheel end.
So, my recommendation is: If you don't want to screw around with an adjustable timing set and the whole degreeing scene, at least do a quick check of the intake centerline after your dot to dot install.

radkon

iTrader: (2)

Good advice. 28 degrees thats a killer (literally)
I have the full cam spec sheet from a cam doctor it is as designed and promised (at least close enough)

777

iTrader: (21)

You are fine, because it has been cam doctored and you know the specs are very close.

MadBill

Not to be totally ****-retentive, but do the Cam Doctor or any other similar devices verify the indexing of the lobes vs. the dowel pin/whatever? I think that bad cam we got from Lu...Oops! would have checked out fine on the Cam Doctor, it's just that everything was skewed big time vs. the alignment pin...