TSP Torquer 2 in A4 car - OR MS3 - opinions???
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TSP Torquer 2 in A4 car - OR MS3 - opinions???
Here is the car:
99 Z28, a4 3.73, LS6 intake + LS6 cam, comp 918's, longtubes, ory, Borla cat back.
Planning converter (Yank 3200) + cam swap.
Any reason NOT to consider the Torquer 2? Should I go MS3 + 3600 converter? Or 228R TSP???
Car is not a DD, but sees lot's of street miles + occasional trips to the track.
Would like to be in the 12 flat range on DR's.
Car ran 12.7 @110 on current setup, + dynoed 332 w/ wimpy LS6 cam
99 Z28, a4 3.73, LS6 intake + LS6 cam, comp 918's, longtubes, ory, Borla cat back.
Planning converter (Yank 3200) + cam swap.
Any reason NOT to consider the Torquer 2? Should I go MS3 + 3600 converter? Or 228R TSP???
Car is not a DD, but sees lot's of street miles + occasional trips to the track.
Would like to be in the 12 flat range on DR's.
Car ran 12.7 @110 on current setup, + dynoed 332 w/ wimpy LS6 cam
#2
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You might want to plan on a 3600-3800 with that MS3 fo sho!
The Tqr v.2 is a great cam and will probably net you some high 11's. Wouldnt think twice about it. Planning on squeezing a 75-100 shot through the motor by any chance? That would probably land you close to a 10.
The Tqr v.2 is a great cam and will probably net you some high 11's. Wouldnt think twice about it. Planning on squeezing a 75-100 shot through the motor by any chance? That would probably land you close to a 10.
#3
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I have the F14, which is very similar to the Tqr v.2. I'm going to the track in week and half. Its definatly do-able on the street. I DD my car. You will definatly need a bigger stall and some gears to go along with. I'm sure you'll get good times with either cam. Both are tried and true.
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Thanks for the replies. Do you think the 3200 will be adequate w/ the Torquer 2 ? I would really like to avoid going to a 3600+ stall as I like the street manners/throttle response of a milder converter.
Anyone else??
Anyone else??
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Originally Posted by CraZee ZO6
Do people consider the torquer 2 more livable on a daily basis then a MS3.
Or are both fairly same for a daily driver car?
Or are both fairly same for a daily driver car?
T2 232/234
MS3 237/242
So it should be "friendlier" + a bit easier to tune. My thoughts are that it should make equal power to the MS3 up to about 6300-6400, but I'd like to hear other opinions on that.
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#8
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yeah me 2.
I went with the ms3 because it works better with spray.
Not installed yet, just having double thoughts of going that big on a street car (not DD but street strip car). I dont want the car to be a dog at 2k rpms. HEARING alot of that talk....
I went with the ms3 because it works better with spray.
Not installed yet, just having double thoughts of going that big on a street car (not DD but street strip car). I dont want the car to be a dog at 2k rpms. HEARING alot of that talk....
#9
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A 3200 is too small with either of those cams.
FWIW, you'd go quicker with a 3600 stall and a 224/228 110LSA cam than a T2 or a MS3 with a 3200 converter. For best ET with either of those TSP cams, you really want more like a 4000 stall. Can you get by with less stall? Sure! But if ET counts, your 60' time is critical and a T2 or MS3 coupled with a 3200 stall converter is going to be lazier than with the proper converter.
FWIW, you'd go quicker with a 3600 stall and a 224/228 110LSA cam than a T2 or a MS3 with a 3200 converter. For best ET with either of those TSP cams, you really want more like a 4000 stall. Can you get by with less stall? Sure! But if ET counts, your 60' time is critical and a T2 or MS3 coupled with a 3200 stall converter is going to be lazier than with the proper converter.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
#11
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Originally Posted by Relativelyfast
So lets say I have a 3400 stall converter and I replaced my stock cam with an MS3, would I loose low end as opposed to stock at 3000 RPM or would it stay similar?
Like I said: smaller cam + 3600 stall > big cam + 3200 stall
#12
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
The stock cam probably has 30 more lb ft of torque at 3000 rpm than the MS3. That big cam doesn't pass up the stock cam until close to 4000 rpm, then it leaves it in the dust! That's why a 4000 stall works so well with the MS3 (and other cams of that size).
Like I said: smaller cam + 3600 stall > big cam + 3200 stall
Like I said: smaller cam + 3600 stall > big cam + 3200 stall
Also, I may well spray this thing lightly in the future, just a 125 shot appx. How should that affect my torque converter selection, if at all.
Thanks in advance, more responses from all please!!!
#13
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yeah PATRICK is right on about the stall. but i didnt see the part where you said your car isnt a DD and more track. in that case yeah go with a bigger stall. a 3600 would be good. im still doing more research my self on a 3200 or 3600 but my car is a DD though and never will see the track.
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Originally Posted by Relativelyfast
Also, I'm not seeing the torque advantage on these graphs from TSP. Someone care to explain?
#17
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Originally Posted by Stripey
Excellent point, I don't get it either. Unless I'm reading it wrong, the Torquer 2 offers no advantage in low end torque over the MS3. Makes no sense. Any of the resident TSP employees care to comment?
By making the duration smaller, like 224, you can run little to no advance. This will put you overlap closer to TDC which will allow you to carry power further past peak hp. Advancing the cam will make the motor more exhaust-biased and it will run out of breath faster. It's a balancing act. That's why I recommended a torquey cam like mine:
224/228 110LSA +0 for most average power
224/228 110LSA +2 for even more torque down low with a small sacrifice in peak HP. This might be best if you want to stick with the 3200 stall. It would also work great with the nitrous since your converter would already be fairly tight. A loose-*** converter is not good for a big shot of spray.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
#18
just out of curiousity what would happen if you put your torque cam or any of the other cams mentioned with a stock converter? With a large amount of low torque would it compensate for the small stall speed? For a person who isnt looking to do huge launches at the track except for maybe once a year or so and the car is pretty much just for the street would it make a huge difference?
Just hypothetically....dont yell at me....
Just hypothetically....dont yell at me....
#19
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Anytime you can significantly raise dynamic compression, you will have an easier time launching with a tight converter. For the stock converter though, you'd want to go with something that likes a lower idle speed and even more low-end torque. Something like a 210/218 110LSA +0.
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Patrick you really like small LSA's - like 110 - most of the popular cams are available, at least "off the shelf" , w/ 112-114 LSA's - why don't the manufacturers "agree" w/ your thinking w/ regard to cams?
Just looking to learn + make the best selection this time!!!!
Just looking to learn + make the best selection this time!!!!