Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

I finally had some time to try out the new Thunder Racing 230/224 .569/.563 111lsa cam this afternoon with stock heads. I was previously using a 227/224 .569/.563 114 cam. We wanted to see what the extra intake duration and tighter lope seperation would do. We were pretty happy with the results. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Matt and I started this morning around 11am and had the car up and running around 2:30pm (including our 30 minute lunch break). Our intial impression was that the cam loped pretty damn hard. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> We took the car out for a quick test run and didn't notice much difference down low, but the car did seem to pull a little better up to the 6800 revlimiter. We were both anxious to strap it down to the dyno. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Here is what we came up with after the dyno session:

Thunder Racing 230/224 .569/.563 111 lsa w/ stock heads

401 rwhp w/ stock heads, Moser 12-bolt (4:30s), stock flywheel, stock driveshaft, and stock wheels! I never thought this would even be possible. Needless to say, I was pretty damn happy. LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />

Here are a few other comparison dyno graphs from the other two Thunder cams I was previously using:
Thunder 230/224 111lsa vs Thunder 227/224 114lsa

Thunder 230/224 111lsa vs Thunder 224/224 114lsa

On the street, the new cam still drives just as good as my old B1 I used to have last summer. Compared to the TR 224/224, it does surge at a slightly higher rpm when in a parking lot. Still, it is nothing bad to live with on a daily basis. The idle is pretty stable (stock idle rpm) and hasn't come close to stalling on me yet. I'll have some sound clips posted in the next day or so. This cam sounds sweet at idle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

BTW, I'm still using the Comp 918s w/ Comp 772 Titanium retainers. They seem to be working extremely well.

Big thanks to Matt for his help getting the car up and running so quickly. Only on an LS1 can you come in at lunch time and have a cam installed and dyno tested before 6pm. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Also, thanks to Geoff for staying a little late on a Saturday to get the car dynoed.

4.56s, new clutch, 28" Hoosiers, 15x10 Prostars, and a BMR tq arm are ready to be installed. Then, it is time to head back to the track. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Jason

<small>[ May 04, 2002, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: Jason99T/A ]</small>

Sears

Damn! Those are awesome results. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Over 400rwhp with stock heads through your drivetrain is amazing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

Justin

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

Thanks Justin! I was very happy to say the least. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

What is amazing is I lost no torque down low vs. the TR224/224 cam, but made 11-12hp more up top. That was just as shocking.

StreetStalkerZ

iTrader: (1)

Damn! Very Very nice jason <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I would love to hear that 111LSA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> You now have the title of "cam changeing *****" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

whatever

Hey tater, what's next?!
Beth/badkitty.

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by StreetStalkerZ:
<strong>Damn! Very Very nice jason <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I would love to hear that 111LSA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> You now have the title of "cam changeing *****" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">lol, this was cam #7. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

List of my old cams:
#1 - '99 stock cam
#2 - MTI/Lunati B1 (221/221 .558/.558 114lsa)
#3 - TR 230/230 .612/.612 112lsa solid roller
#4 - '99 stock cam
#5 - TR 224/224 114lsa
#6 - TR 227/224 114lsa
#7 - TR 230/224 111lsa
#8 - ???? (stay tuned this summer as plans are already made) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> LOL

<small>[ May 04, 2002, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Jason99T/A ]</small>

whatever

Seriously, Jason congrats on breaking four hundred. Oh, and Beth wants to know when she will get her ride. Not in the car but on that cool as scooter you had in panama

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Over 400 rwhp from stock heads? Without dyno friendly 3.42 gears? Without lightweight wheels? Without a short belt? With a power sapping 12 bolt?

That's simply amazing! Jason, you guys at Thunder Racing are really on to something with these "reverse split" cams. You lose absolutely no low end torque, but gain everything up high. Look at that low power peak...6300! Man, I love how it maintains that power all the way to the 6800 rpm rev limiter. This will allow you to turn the motor tighter for better ETs, but without the typical side effects of poor idle, bad fuel economy, and mushy low-end torque. What Thunder Racing has basically done is come up with a cam with no downsides. Abundant low-end torque, strong mid-range, and superior top-end pulling ability. And God I love the new sound.

I'm glad that you guys finally dynoed a 6 speed car. Jason, your car is very repeatable on the dyno and your results look just like mine. I caught a little bit of flack from guys because my car was an automatic. Some called my results "inconclusive". Thanks for having the guts to try something new and blaze your own trail. Sometimes you win...more often you lose. Congrats for being in the plus column. Looks like you're going to need a good name for the Thunder Racing Reverse Split Cams. I like the name "G-Force" cams. In case that sounds like I'm being biased, just tell Mr. Skinner that it could easily mean Geoff-Force, haha.

pnbarbee

Jason, what other mods do you have? And what were you making with the stock cam?

Sorry if I ask any stupid questions. I only recently discovered this board and I want to see what I can learn here.

XtraCajunSS

iTrader: (2)

Damn Tater, that kicks a$$! Congrats on reaching your goal of 400RWHP with stock heads!!!

I sure am glad you are so good at cam swaps now. In a couple of weeks when we crank up the beast, I'm sure I'll become a cam swap ***** too... <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

black00WS6

Damn thats nice. I got about 390 with the T1, might have to swap cams now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> stock rockers?

<small>[ May 04, 2002, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: black00WS6 ]</small>

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

Matt: lol, I don't think we have any of those cool scooters in Baton Rouge. I think it is a beach thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Patrick: Thanks for the kind words. We just love trying new stuff out. It is the only way to learn. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Good or bad, you always learn something.

pnbarbee: Here are my mods - Whisper lid, stock MAF/no screen, fast toys ram air kit, LS6 intake, Thunder Racing ported TB, Grotyohann longtubes w/ 3" custom y-pipe, TR cam, Comp 918s w/ Comp 772 Ti. retainers, Comp 7.400" pushrods, Hooker catback/cutout, ASP crank pulley, Thunder Racing custom tuning, Moser 12-bolt (4:30s).

Shane: I have a feeling we will be swapping a few cams in the 409ci beast. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

black00WS6: Yes, I am using the stock rockers.

<small>[ May 04, 2002, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Jason99T/A ]</small>

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

That is pretty impressive... Really big #'s from stock heads.. Sounds like the inverted cam is nice..

gator's 99TA

iTrader: (2)

amazing! i NEED that cam! when will it be available to us non-TR groupies??? also, i have hotcam car on stock programing. after programing, how will this huge inverted cam compared to mine? the hotcam is what i consider to be a pretty damn close to max streetablility. is it close or worse idle than my hotcam? thanks jason!

Trojan T/A

iTrader: (1)

Great results! Is this cam available to the public? Can't wait to hear those sound clips.

P.S.-would the XE-R lobes with higher lift make a difference or is that still up for debate? I'd still go with what is proven from TR over something new.

CHRISPY

Congrats great numbers!!
next cam test <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
234/226? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris

Coach 02 A3 Z/28

iTrader: (10)

Mr. Cam *****,

Congrads on the 400hp. Now let's go to the track! <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

Is this cam close to what is going into the Hot Rod? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

It seems to me that it is time for Vic to put in a cage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

Yes, I do have alot of time to play on the computer now because some strange reason I can't race right now.

Caoch

<small>[ May 05, 2002, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Coach 02Z28 ]</small>

Joe Kizzire

Now try a 230/230 .569 lift cam.... I'll bet you'll be surprised at the results.... Really guys your giving the engine more cam and it's telling you what it likes... More cam!!!!

Crowley

nice numbers man!! What other mods do you have to the car?

Thanks,
Crowley

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Joe Kizzire,

We have debated the merits of a 230/224 cam vs. a 230/230 cam. Conventional wisdom says the 230/230 cam should make more power than a 224/224 cam...even a 230/224 cam. As we all know, there's a thing called diminishing returns on any motor. When we approach that point, we no longer keep the abundant low end torque and still gain it up high. At the point of diminishing returns, what we gain on one end, we lose on the other. In essence, we just move the powerband up a notch. What Thunder Racing has been trying to find is what's the biggest cam you can put in these LS1s that will idle well, get good fuel economy, exhibit good street manners and then make power everywhere...basically, develop a cam that broadens the powerband, not just move it higher in the rpm range. That's a tall order for anybody.

The "reverse split" cams seem to give LS1 enthusiasts the best of both worlds. I think we will eventually approach a point where you will continue to see larger cams picking up the LS1s at higher rpms, but losing at lower rpms (the dreaded trade-off). Once you reach that point, only the serious racer will continue to tread forward and go bigger. For the most part, the bigger the cam, the more power it will make as long as you continue to turn the motor tighter. That's why the solid rollers are so attractive. Heck, if I had the dough, I'd be running one too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Patrick