Sluggish

iTrader: (10)

As the title implies my ms4 killed a valve spring 2 weeks ago. I was driving to work and heard a vaint tick. About a 1/4 mile down the road it was getting worse and i pulled over. I called a tow truck and now the car sits in the driveway out of order. I ordered some new Patriot Extreme spring from speed inc. and am waiting there arrival. They should be here tomorrow so I started working on it today. The #5 intake spring was the one that gave first.
Here it is in all its glory. The pushrod was remove and i was holding the rocker up. Sorry the picture sucks


The valve didn't fall in, but there is about a 1/4 of play. I know that the piston was just barely hitting the valve. Im not sure of the damage to it yet. i was planning on putting on the spring then doing a compression test to check it before just pulling the head. Today when I pulled off the spring i noticed a new problem.


The rubber seal was completely gone. This is the #3 intake spring the inner spring has failed and some of it is missing.


Here are some other pictures



The rest of the springs were not broken, and I am going to replace them all. But now Im wondering if I need to pull the head to because of the damage in the second picture. If I have to pull the head Im just going to buy some new ones. If that happens I will have another list of questions on what heads. Any info would help, Thanks Ben

erikthegoalie

iTrader: (29)

Just buy new heads, no sense in screwing around these days...I mean, the reality is you screwed some valves up (which you did), and the springs are shot...

Why not just pick up a nice set of ported heads, valves, springs, and wha laa...no more trouble...plus you'll get some more power!
I mean, heads/cam is really the norm nowadays...agreed?
E

Louie83

iTrader: (3)

What is the lift on the MS4?

00T\A

A bunch lol.

Magic Stick V.4 239/242, .649"/.609"

hardtopz28

iTrader: (13)

damn cuz that just sums up how big the ms4 really is. I have those same springs on a s cam and I havent had any problems. I would go ahead and get a set of heads if you can afford it.

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

Odd the seals were damaged, did you verify the retainer to seal distance during installation? You should check that is new springs won't change this value.

Another thought here, did the seals fail because of the broken spring or did the spring hit the retainer hit the seals taking them out and they tool out the springs as they passed between them.

Sluggish

iTrader: (10)

G-force did the install. The number 3 seal is still intacted even though the inner spring failed. I think that the spring was just pushed to its limit for to long .650 rated springs. So it just gave in.

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Im sure the gold dual companies are going to say that the platinum duals are really recommended with the MS4. However, Im still pretty surprised they failed so drastically. I hope we dont start seeing many more of these posts.

How was the car driven? Was it warmed up to full operating temp before it saw high rpm? was it 10K worth of quarter mile runs? Did you see any valve float on the dyno? Just curious if there was anything out of the ordinary?

Really this sucks to see, plain and simple. The springs shouldnt have failed you.

LS1rulz

iTrader: (1)

You really gotta check those gold duals. A local guy got a set that had some that could be compressed between your fingers. Makes me worry about mine for sure!

PREDATOR-Z

See guys the Gold dual says .650 lift but the seat pressuires are lower than what the LSK intake requires. That is why they upgraded to the Extrme Gold nowadays. Still same lift handling but more seat pressure capable.

I would pull the head as well.

Yeahdoug

That's pretty common when you have a spring failure. The inner will chew up the seal/guide.

Sluggish

iTrader: (10)

The 10k miles were 90% highway mile just cruising to work, which is a 60 mile trip one way. I alway let the car warm up before even moving and never rev'd when it was cold. When the springs broke I had the cruise control set on 68mph which is about 1550rpm. I had been cruising that speed the whole trip. The car only made five 1/4 mile passes. I lost a race against a Mach 1 that I knew I should have won. The next day is when I went to the track to see whats the deal. I ran very slow and I knew there was a problem. I blamed it on the car not being retuned for the new intake (typhoon). So that tuesday i went back to G-Force for a retune. On the 1st pass I made 368rwhp w/ 10.7 A/F.... The leaned the car out to 13.0 and made 370. I pissed and bought a Fast when I left.

When I pulled off the intake the other day (after the spring broke) i found that the gasket had been pushed over covering a little of the #7 and #8 intake runners. Which was my fault for not paying attention. I thought I found the problem, which it was hurting the car. But now I think that the valves where floating and thats where all the power went.

P.S. Original numbers were 410rwhp

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

I've always recommended a better spring than Patriot Golds when running LSK lobes. I've had some sponsors disagree with my opinion on this and recommend un-shimmed Gold Duals on these cams. To me, that's like playing with a loaded gun. Sometimes you're safe, sometimes not. The cost of failure is high though and to me it justifies getting the upgrade springs (like AFR 8019s, Patriot Extremes, or Comp 921s). Shimming them to within .050" of coil bind will eliminate spring surge and this will help a lot with high rpm valve control.

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Before you take that setup apart take some time to measure the installed height on that setup. Maybe there is a issue in the installed height... I've been running the gold spring on a few cars here for TONS of miles with LSK lobes.

Sluggish

iTrader: (10)

Well I pulled the head and replaced the 2 intake valves. I changed all the springs with Patriot Extremes. I just put all of the passenger side pushrods and rockers on. I torqued down 2, 4, and 6 cylinder rockers to 22lbs/ft. Then I tried to spin the motor over but its binding. I don't know if its the springs binding or PTV hitting. What are the differents in the two springs? The Extremes were a little taller than the Golds. But how would that effect my PTV?


Edit: I found the problem, I forgot the rocker arm guide like a jackass. But then I just stripped out a rocker arm hole. Hopefully will have it fixed tomorrow.