TA1364

iTrader: (11)

Going with a tr224. Should I use single 918s with stock retainers or use duel patriots and retainers? Would duels wear slower than singles? I wont ever be putting a bigger cam in my car.

TA1364

iTrader: (11)

anyone..

93redBIRDman

iTrader: (9)

918's will work fine with your stock retainers, but if you want added security and insurance then the dual springs and better retainers would be better...

TA1364

iTrader: (11)

The extra pressure wouldnt effect anything?

Gunnar@Patriot

iTrader: (20)

The Patriot Golds will work great for you. The only thing you may notice is a small amount of valve train noise from the springs.

JPH

iTrader: (2)

crane #144832 or #144833 springs, but with that profile of cam, the #144832-16 springs(duals), along with #144944-16 retainers would be a good combo to use.

Scoggin Dickey

iTrader: (34)

All that extra noise and valvetrain mass from the double springs...why?? That cam doesn't come close to needing all that extra spring! Get the new CompCams 26918's and be done...you can get the titanium retainers for them if you've got it in your budget and you want the ability to spin the motor a bit higher (which that cam won't need to spin that high.)

Call me if I can help, we stock the 26918's, retainers, and all the other small parts/gaskets you'll need to finish the job!

JPH

iTrader: (2)

dual spring= far superior valvetrain control/stability over a beehive IMO.
and to buy aftermarket ti retainers for beehive springs, is a waste of money over the stock ls1 retainers. (not saving much weight, 4 grams to be exact)

Scoggin Dickey

iTrader: (34)

You're saying that the extra mass of the dual spring/retainer makes for MORE control and stability???? It's one thing to push a product that you're fond of, it's another to push that product when you know it's wrong for a particular application.

Why don't we see 25.x rollcages in 13 second cars? They provide for better protection, right?

JPH

iTrader: (2)

i wouldn't say the dual spring i recommended is wrong for the application matt, at the most maybe overkill some would say, but that is just an option/opinion for him to dwell upon. the 918's would work fine, or even cranes beehives would be fine. the reason why i push the dual springs in 90% of the applications, is because the beehive springs i used once, i had a bad experience with them, and that most of the cam profiles i use or recommend for people need dual springs for optimum performance and valve control. given a 224 cam that pks at 6000-6100k, might not necessary need a dual spring, but if i was doing it, and i ground the profile, i would probably put a dual spring on it, if customers budget allowed it.

TA1364

iTrader: (11)

I would like to have the most reliable setup, with my budget I cant be constantly trying to fix problems. Correct me if im wrong the way i see it is reliability goes
1. duels with ti retainers
2. 918s with ti retainers
3. 918s with stock retainers

JPH

iTrader: (2)

#3, if i had to choose out of three. cheapest and easiest. just get the new #918's from matt @sdpc.

bad6as

iTrader: (17)

predator z said i would get better valve control from 918's on a xer .595 lift cam compared to the duals

Scoggin Dickey

iTrader: (34)

He speaks the truth!

bad6as

iTrader: (17)

i would also like to get some ti retainter for the springs too. but i do have a queston about the seat and seal. i know the dual spring kit came with new seats im guessing because its a whole differant spring. can i reuse the stock seat? i have a 98 so are the valve seal and seat one pice or two? so what should i do about the seat and seal

TA1364

iTrader: (11)

looks like 918s it is

Scoggin Dickey

iTrader: (34)

For the 918's you can leave your seat/seal alone...unless of course you suspect/know that they are leaking, then it's a good time to change them out!

bad6as

iTrader: (17)

well like i said its a 98 and has just under 100k, so why not do it while im in their, what are my options

Scoggin Dickey

iTrader: (34)

And to clarify so I'm not stepping on toes: we sell ALOT of dual valve springs to our customers including but not limited to Patriot/AFR, PRC, Manley, Crane, Comp, etc. But in this application, for the camshaft TA1364 is running...a single spring is more than enough spring and will provide better valve control from less valvetrain mass. He could actually get by with the yellow LS6 springs even if he isn't planning to spin the motor over 6K rpm very often, truth be known.

Joe@Crane Cams

iTrader: (2)

It is a common misconception that there is a correlation between noise and if the valve spring is single or a dual. Our 144832 and 144833 springs have less "knock sensitive noise" than the 918s and our 99831 springs which are the original 918s built by Peterson Spring. These beehive springs are still cylindrical on the bottom and are only conical on top, which means they share many of the same harmonic profiles of a cylindrical spring. There are more issues with respect to the natural frequency characteristics of springs than shape, single, dual, triple or any of the previous with a damper. It is in the design of the spring;wire material, wire shape wire diameter, coil diameter and pitch and using the spring in its designated parameters. Using the spring on a profile that is different than what it was designed for can change the harmonic intensity when the springs' natural harmonics occur and the spring can literally self destruct in various manners. A beehive spring can be a great spring on lightweight valve applications such as an LS motor if used correctly. The 144832 is a dual that has excellent valvetrain stability to 6200 rpm with most cam lobes and the 144833 is a dual that has excellent valvetrain stability to 7200 rpm with most cam lobes. Both are extremely quiet with respect to knock sensitive frequencies. As far as the most reliable setup, which is what TA1364 is looking for, a dual spring will give you redundancy. If something happens, you have an extra spring to preserve the motor. As we all know, with any valve spring, for whatever reason, there can be a batch problems, (as we have seen recently), spring material issues and other reasons for breakage. If a single spring breaks, there is no backup, and catastrophic engine damage often results. For a street application, I always recommend the safest, durable, most reliable option which in my opinion would be a dual spring package. I do understand that working within a budget you have to consider all factors, and if a single or beehive safely fits the requirements, then by all means go that route. It is why we offer the 99831 beehive and the 144845 single spring. The main thing is that you do your homework, go with what makes you comfortable and live with your decision.