camaro_fanatic2003

iTrader: (3)

I've been doing a lot of reading on these recently but there don't seem to be many threads about the topic anymore, just from 2005 or earlier, so I was wondering what everyones take on this subject is now since there is always new stuff coming out. I always used to think the head/cam was the way to go, but after reading other threads, am not so sure now. So here's my questions:

First of all, what is going to be the best bang for the buck?

Second, where is the best place to get stroke kits, or do you pretty much have to buy a whole engine?

Third, what is going to be the best ci for big power?

I'm thinking about going with a turbo application down the road, but it's going to be awhile, so until then, I want to be able to make good power.

All input is greatly appreciated, sorry if this is one of the "beat to death" subjects, but I did do a search and didn't come up with all that much, maybe I didn't search the correct topics...thanks in advance.

camaro_fanatic2003

iTrader: (3)

Also, I will be driving on the street most of the time, but would like to make good numbers at the track also.

landonew

IMO Stroke kits are a waste of time. Basically have to get the block rebuilt (rehoned pistons, ext.) Is better to just get a shortblock built by a sponser. The best CI for big power depends on what you mean by BIG. LSX 454 is obviously a great choice, but is also the most expensive. If you are going NA then a 427 ls7 is great. If you plan to use a power adder, then either a 418 ls3 or a 402 ls2 are good choices. As for your poll, most people like square engines (i.e. stroke = bore diameter). They seem to be a good balance, still allowing for relatively high RPMS, without destroking and loosing to much CI.

camaro_fanatic2003

iTrader: (3)

Not sure how much I want to spend, don't know if I really want to get a whole new engine...plus breaking in an engine SUCKS!!! lol.

camaro_fanatic2003

iTrader: (3)

BTW, what engine do you put the 427 rotating assembly in? Do you have to get a LSX block and bore it out or does it go in an LS2 like a stroke kit?

MrElectric03

iTrader: (71)

427ci leaves you alot of options. the rotating assembly will fit right in an LSX block once the bore is matched, or you can use darton dry sleeves in an LS2 block and have a really strong aluminum 427 and an LS7 is already a 427 but IMO is best for N/A.

Turbo is a great way to go for a street car if you get an adjustable boost controller then you pretty much have power at your fingertips.

I am going with a head and cam package and later will build an engine myself, that way I can still drive my car while it is being built instead of it sitting in the driveway while I rebuild that motor.

camaro_fanatic2003

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, if I do get a new motor, I'm probably just going to drive my car how it is until the new one is done, then pull this one and put it on an engine stand and drop the new one in. This is my only car for now, so I can't afford to have it down for any amount of time except on the weekends.

InchUp

iTrader: (2)

Thinking logically here after reading a few posts above mine...You have the option of a longer crankshaft (requires new crank, pistons and most replace the rods anyway), bigger bore (requiring the complete disassembly of the engine, new pistons, expensive machine work, and in an aluminum block wont net much gain for the cost) or a heads/cam swap (requiring the least amount of actual work but will cost about the same as a new rotating assembly).

The longer crankshaft will make about the same horsepower honestly, but more torque across the entire rev range, and your peak power will be at a lower RPM giving you better under the curve use. The only problem is that your weekend garage time doesn't really allow a full tear down and rebuild of the motor unless you have a NASCAR crew at your whim.

The larger bore in an aluminum block is only good for what...0.010" over but then you're flirting with thin cylinder sleeves and block flex at high RPM. Not to mention the down time of the build considering no shop will be able to do what you're asking on just a Saturday, leaving you to rebuild the motor and drop it in on Sunday. Cost-to-bennefit doesn't seem to make sense with this option.

Heads and cam...well John Lingenfelter says it all here. The world's best cam combined with a poor set of heads will produce an engine that's a dog. But bolt on a set of great heads even with a poor cam, and that engine will still make great power.-John Lingenfelter. The only problem is that a new set of heads with a higher duration cam is going to make your daily drive to work or school...unpleasant to say the least if you follow the footsteps of many guys and gals on here that bigger is better. Mileage and daily manners will be down, with top end horsepower up. You'd be trading daily driveability and throttle response for top end power because all better heads and a higher lift cam do is make the motor spin faster while taking advantage of the increased CFM and volumetric efficiency. You can't have it all, unfortunately, at least not with a naturally aspirated motor.

I'd hate to say this but I think the answer is a nitrous system. I am really not a fan of nitrous. However, this is your daily driver (I assume since you said you don't have another vehicle to drive), you can only work on the car on the weekends and can't afford a new motor at the moment. To me it seems like a no brainer. A full nitrous system can be had for half the cost of a stroker crankshaft and required rotating assembly changes, about half the cost of machine work needed for an over bore and about three quarters the cost of a new set of heads and matching camshaft. Nitrous is the greedy man's power adder. The best bang for the buck, and with today's safety measures you can't go wrong unless you get too greedy. A 100 shot of nitrous would do more for you than a stroked crankshaft and bore combined, and probably the same as a new set of heads and camshaft, however you wont lose any daily driveability nor mileage.

Done deal in my book.

landonew

If it is your DD and you can't afford to be w/o it then I would suggest you not modify it at all. You should know that any time you do a performance upgrade (aside from bolt-ons) you WILL decrease the overall reliability of your car. What if the new found power causes you to spin a bearing, (not unheard, happende to me on 1st dyno pull after H/C and I have 1/2 the miles you do).

That being said, if you do decide to roll the dice, then i would suggest a decent H/C package. You will have a lot more fun out of a decent H/C package than a N2O system.

camaro_fanatic2003

iTrader: (3)

Well I may buy a cheap truck this summer so I can drive it during the winter because driving the WS.6 was a pain in the butt. Also, I would probably wait to mod if I decide to get a whole new engine and build it. If I go the nitrous route, it will probably be after the mod I choose from this thread, it goes well with them. I don't really care about daily driveability, I want it drivable, but I also want it fun.

camaro_fanatic2003

iTrader: (3)

Also, if I do a all bore, I will probably buy an iron block or something.

GTObsessor

iTrader: (2)

If you're only going to do one of the above, H/C.

I suggest you read around A LOT more before you make a decision. Sounds like you have quite a bit more to learn before dropping $5k

landonew

Good choice with the truck. Whats your budget? If you have 6K or so to drop, I would suggest Calling tony mamo and ordering a set of AFR 205s, plus a fast 90/90, YT rockers, and a custom grind comp cam. That would be a good investment as far as the top end of the motor is concerned. Then save up for the short block. If you have less than that or are not ready to "take the blue pill" and buy a good set of cylinder heads, then I would suggest that you go with a cam for now, and maybe a fast 90/90. The heads are gonna be expensive, but they are worth it .

Note: I suggest the aftermarket castings because he is talking about going big in the future and he will need some heads he can "grow into".

camaro_fanatic2003

iTrader: (3)

Well if I do the stroker, it's going to take bigger than 205's to feed it. I'm not sure what my budget is going to be yet, depends on how wild I decide to get I suppose. Not going to happen tomorrow or anything, just figuring out which direction I'm going to go before I spend any money. I still have to get headers and an intake, but this will decide which ones I go with.

hammertime

iTrader: (1)

See, this is why others are suggesting you should read.

403 LS2 / AFR 205?s lays down 550+ RWHP!!
402 AFR 205 results 501rwhp thru 9in.

AFR 205 + 402 ci is still a good combo. Yes, if you go FI later, bigger heads may be better.

BTW - a reality check for you, after you purchase a daily driver, you still have a lot of money to spend to get a big cube bottle fed or FI car together. Most people figure a real world $8K-$10K to build a 408 complete & ready to run in the car. Add another minimal 50% for FI, but that can grow quickly too.

camaro_fanatic2003

iTrader: (3)

After going over it all, I don't think I'm going to do the stroker...yet. Maybe a few years down the road when I get a new DD and this one turns into a drag car, but at this point, I don't think it's for me. I think I will stick with the head and cam for now, relatively cheap for the power gained.

You all are right, I do have a lot to learn, and I'm working on it. I usually spend most of my time on here reading. I have seen people with strokers that have talked about the 205 not being big enough and needing to have the 225's or bigger, that is why I thought that. When I do go stroker years down the road, it'll probably be the 427. What heads will flow good with that? Will the 205's work, or will I need bigger?

Thanks for all of your help, you can still keep it coming because I will do it later on, so the info is still good, just not right now.

Stang's Bane

iTrader: (22)

If you are starting with a stockish car(bolt-ons) and you want to be able to drive a big cube car without the constant fear of breaking something, you would need to double that amount of money. I have put over $25K in mine. Not including the car. The only thing that bought that was not performance related was new wheels. Those are debatable also, since I went with wider ones in the rear to run a 315 DR.

BlackNiteWS6

iTrader: (2)

My take on it is: If you look at an LT1 or any 350cid chevy small block the stroke is 3.45 inches and the bore is 4.00 inches. The difference is .55. All i did was subtract the bore from the stroke. With a stock LS1 the bore is 3.898 and the stroke is 3.622. That's a difference of only .276. Now the Big Bore 387cid LS1 moves the bore to stroke ratio closer to the tried and true 350 chevy. The 387 with it's 4.125 bore and 3.622 stroke is a difference of .503. To me i like that ratio much better than a LS1 383 that's has a bigger stroke than bore. I know most people with argue that cubic inches is cubic inches. True. But if there is a more efficient way of adding cubes that's what i want my money spent, even if it's alittle more than the stroker. I've personally been in both a LS1 383 stroker and a 382 all bore. And this was when all bores were a new idea. The big bore motor was sick. It revved instantly and had awesome torque thru the whole rpm range. In the stroker the motor revved slow and it didn't feel anywhere near as sick as the bore motor.
GM already gave us the stroke, just adding the bore is what it needed. The Ls1 is a mini-stroker from the factory.

ForumMoto

I didn't read everything that was on here, but I came to the post that said "anytime you add a performance upgrade to your car you decrease the reliability."
My 7.5 10 bolt was holding up perfectly until i added even my few upgrades, and soon afterwords picked up some noise. Even 15 or so RWHP took its toll on that rear. So its just food for thought. My car is my DD and I'm stuck riding my street bike rain or shine now until i get the rear fixed. And...from this experience, it sucks. It also instantly ate through the Centerforce clutch that came with the car, and i then decided to spend the $800 on the spec flywheel/clutch so i had some peace of mind. It just all starts to add up...
-Jason

david vericker

iTrader: (1)

You forgot to mention if the all bore 382 vs stroker 383 had the same gear...same cam and heads...same tranny...if not then you weren't comparing apples to apples. Theres a lot more involved in the performance of a motor than just the bore vs the stroke.

My 383 stroker which is really set up to run on nitrous (cam 114 + 4 and 342 gear) pulls hard on the bottom end when on motor only. If the cam was 111 + 2 with a 411 gear...that thing would be a beast on motor only.