sean058621

iTrader: (2)

hey all.. long time lurker... I don't really post much here but I'm looking for input that I can't find on ls1gto.com

I'm building a 402 stroker for my 2005 gto....


ok well block is bare and ready to be machined.

I've decided on a rotating assy from TSP, 402.

-compstar crank
-compstar rods
-weisco or diamond pistons(dish dependent on heads/cam choice)

also replacing virtually every seal/bearing or bolt in the motor(arp)


so now I"m stuck here on my heads and cam choice.. mostly the heads..

the builder at first wanted to go with prc stage III ls6 225cc heads. these heads boast several 402 builds , averaging over 500rwhp. these are $1700

then there are the cast prc 237 cc heads.. a little more expensive, around $2000 I haven't heard much about them

later on I ran into some patriots, Patriot Performance CNC Ported 243 LS6 / LS2 2.08"/1.60" 64cc
these heads were used on my friend curtis' trans am. he has a 402 or 408 can't remember.
anywho with these heads he put down 531rwhp and is running 11.7X ALL MOTOR!! at bandimere speedway!!(6,000-9,000 DA's commonly) so down where most of you guys are at sea level its deep into the 10's all motor.
the most unbelieveable part of these heads is the price. just shy of $1300 !!!

and now we move on the more expensive stuff that I've had a hard time trying to justify.

the AFR's I can get from rpm speed are $2100, however Id' have to spend another 300 on springs, making them 2400.

any thoughts on any of these?? any reccomendations??

of course money is an issue here.



what is everyone else running??



p.s.
my goals/priorties

-daily driver so I need it to be managable
-1/4 mile times... over dyno numbers
-good midrange and low end power with stock gears(3.46)
-don't want to rape myself with the cost.


thanks!!

SICKSS/Z28

alof of people will say tfs 235 but prc 237cc would get my vote for 2k but if you dont have that much patriot stage III LS6 style are a nice piece for the money

ps prc 237's are a 2.10 intake valve all the others listed are 2.08 i belive

sean058621

iTrader: (2)

those patriots are dirt cheap. which makes me worry.. they are literally a thousand less than the comp!!! I do have friends running them successfully though.


can anyone recall any horror stories from patriot or PRC.. those are the two that everyone loves to hate it seems...?? I don't understand why

sean058621

iTrader: (2)

please chime in stroker guys!

sean058621

iTrader: (2)

honestly?? nobody can help me??

I want to get those patriots cause the price.. but I don't want to spend money on something that won't make power or that I will regret...
same with those prcs.


should I just dip into the credit and buy afr's ?? or are the cheaper heads just as good??

Z06kern

iTrader: (18)

Have you read through the thread below. There are several 402 combos with numbers and opinions on heads. I'm running the Patriots and are pretty happy with them.


https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...wtq-a4-m6.html

blu byu EH

iTrader: (25)

Trick flows heads ftw Use the 225 because you will make more tq then the 235. But the 235 will make more hp.

sean058621

iTrader: (2)

simply due to my pocket book I'm looking at the patriots.

I can get a brand new set for 1200 bucks(discount)


or I can get AFR 225's for 2300(discount)


the main question here.



ARE THE AFR'S WORTH 1,100 MORE THAN THE PATRIOTS.
IF SO, WHY.

jmilz28

iTrader: (13)

Man, check out some of allngn_c5 's posts on his build. It is/was the 402 with AFR205s and he had some stellar results. He did over 500/500 and must have had some absolutely violent throttle response. Aftermarket castings are simply better than any of the 243s but good porters will get them close for less money. Bang for the buck, the 243s are hard to beat BUT if you're the personality type that's going to look back and think, " Did I leave 10-20 rwhp and ft-lbs/a tenth or two on the table?", you better nut up for the AFRs, TFSs, or even the PRC 237s, though I haven't seem much on them yet. This is the question you need to ask yourself, that's your answer. If it were me and I had the scratch, I'd go AFR or TFS and would lean towards the 205 and 215, respectively. Good luck!

sean058621

iTrader: (2)

respectively what kind of diff is 10-20rwhp going to make in the quarter mile.

SlwSVT

If its 10-20rwhp across the board, you will lose a couple of mph in the quarter. You really should contemplate your cam choice as well. A good spec cam for the heads and cubes will go a long ways towards your goals. My motor is going together right now with a 404, 243 heads that flow 329 intake and 260 exhaust. I had Patrick G spec me the cam for my setup and goals. Hopefully will have numbers next week.

blu byu EH

iTrader: (25)

Your tq is FLAT and this is what you want. Also how bad do you want to **** up people bad or really bad . You will only make maybe 470ish vs. 515+. If you buy cheap parts that is what you get.

sean058621

iTrader: (2)

my friends 402 made 531rwhp with these patriot heads...



can you show me some dyno graphs that are evidence to what your saying??

Denali08

How is TFS215 with 4.060 bore? Not sure if I shoud use it instead of 317 heads. Just worried about bore since TFS215 are made for 3.9" LS1 bore.

jmilz28

iTrader: (13)

A car length, maybe two. Remember power under the curve is more important than peak numbers. SlwSVT is right on.

blu byu EH

iTrader: (25)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...90-90-etc.html https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...wtq-a4-m6.html

hope this helps

INTENESS

iTrader: (4)

I have a 402 I would say the extra money for the afr's is money well spent,they are great head I made 530 rw on very streetable set up.

SICKSS/Z28

if you dont already have a fast 92/92 have you looked into the L92's? they flow 360 cfm ported by prc and TEA charges around 800 for the cnc and milled and maybe new valves not sure on the valves 100% the intake is used price is 200-300 new is only 400 with dbw 90mm tb rails and 40lbs injectors so in an f-body all you need is a cable 90mm tb i have 1500 into my stock L92's L76 intake and aftermarket rockers

but a friend of mine a few years ago made 502 in a 408 with patriot stage III's LS6 intake ported stock tb, 1 7/8 lt's td's 10 bolt 6 speed oh off the shelf texas giant cam

so the patriots do preform i would buy them if i were you and was planning on buying a ported fast 95/95

SICKSS/Z28

are your afr's stock out of the box or were the touched up?

SELLSZ06

iTrader: (12)

I had initially bought patriots, kept getting water/coolant in the engine, I thought I kept litfing heads but I was only running only 4lbs of boost. turns out it was my brand new patriots that had cnc'd the pockets too much and ripped thru one ports shooting coolant into my cylinders. spent $$$ trying to fix my brand new motor bc of them. Lost my shortblock
if running NA get the best heads your budget allows, for FI heads arent as critical but the thicker decked ones offer huge reliability. I ended up getting AFR 225s.

Although sometimes I wish I went with some TFS, but they are almost the same.
My vote: TFS 225, AFR 225, Livernois l92. Or get some stock L92, save up and send to TEA for a port job
but excellent heads are always a good investment, especially in NA