Texas Speed's LS3 231/236 cam???
12-27-2009, 08:43 AM
#2
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You should concentrate more on the exhaust side of the heads, that's were these heads suffer. "JMO", I'm no expert on these heads!!! but from all the reading i have done over the past couple of years, the consensus is, the intake side is awesome, but the exhaust side needs work.
That's why you see people making good power with a 218/236 .600"/.614" 112 LSA.....but they fall flat on there face at 5900RPM, an old school-er like me might consider this cam on an 6.0L a mickey mouse cam from just looking at the numbers, my mentors back then would always say......GO BIG, OR GO HOME......but technology has changed, and will continue to change.... but not me....I still type with two fingaz lol....
12-31-2009, 04:48 PM
#3
The camshaft is setup that way because that's what we had the best luck with on the engine dyno. We absolutely don't just select a camshaft & install it in a car without doing tons of testing. That camshaft was a result of many different camshafts that were tested one after another in a effort to maximize overall power across a very broad power band.
I don't believe anyone else in the LS industry spend the developmental time on camshafts that we do here @ TSP.
I don't believe anyone else in the LS industry spend the developmental time on camshafts that we do here @ TSP.
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12-31-2009, 04:53 PM
#4
The camshaft is setup that way because that's what we had the best luck with on the engine dyno. We absolutely don't just select a camshaft & install it in a car without doing tons of testing. That camshaft was a result of many different camshafts that were tested one after another in a effort to maximize overall power across a very broad power band.
I don't believe anyone else in the LS industry spend the developmental time on camshafts that we do here @ TSP.
I don't believe anyone else in the LS industry spend the developmental time on camshafts that we do here @ TSP.
You should sponsor me.
12-31-2009, 05:03 PM
#5
Why that high of a lift on the intake side?
You should concentrate more on the exhaust side of the heads, that's were these heads suffer. "JMO", I'm no expert on these heads!!! but from all the reading i have done over the past couple of years, the consensus is, the intake side is awesome, but the exhaust side needs work.
That's why you see people making good power with a 218/236 .600"/.614" 112 LSA.....but they fall flat on there face at 5900RPM, an old school-er like me might consider this cam on an 6.0L a mickey mouse cam from just looking at the numbers, my mentors back then would always say......GO BIG, OR GO HOME......but technology has changed, and will continue to change.... but not me....I still type with two fingaz lol....
You should concentrate more on the exhaust side of the heads, that's were these heads suffer. "JMO", I'm no expert on these heads!!! but from all the reading i have done over the past couple of years, the consensus is, the intake side is awesome, but the exhaust side needs work.
That's why you see people making good power with a 218/236 .600"/.614" 112 LSA.....but they fall flat on there face at 5900RPM, an old school-er like me might consider this cam on an 6.0L a mickey mouse cam from just looking at the numbers, my mentors back then would always say......GO BIG, OR GO HOME......but technology has changed, and will continue to change.... but not me....I still type with two fingaz lol....
, you would reconsider your thinking. I know it's just your opinion but TSP is onto something and they have the specs and the dyno on thier site, few, if any do that with the LS3.Good work TSP
01-02-2010, 09:26 PM
#8
The camshaft is setup that way because that's what we had the best luck with on the engine dyno. We absolutely don't just select a camshaft & install it in a car without doing tons of testing. That camshaft was a result of many different camshafts that were tested one after another in a effort to maximize overall power across a very broad power band.
I don't believe anyone else in the LS industry spend the developmental time on camshafts that we do here @ TSP.
I don't believe anyone else in the LS industry spend the developmental time on camshafts that we do here @ TSP.
Beyond that, most people don't realize the large differences between intake and exhaust flow conditions in a running engine. The highest intake flow volumes occur near the middle of the "intake stroke", with intake lift near maximum. On the other hand, maximum exhaust volume flow occurs at high pressure, shortly after exhaust valve open, even before the actual "exhaust stroke" is much underway. The majority of exhaust gas volume exits before the valve is even .200 open. That's why simplistic analysis of intake/exhaust flow ratios, or cam designs based on those ratios, don't accurately model real world results.
Kudos to TSP for spending the time and money to figure out what really does work, rather than what (over simplistically) "should" work.
01-03-2010, 09:43 AM
#10
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we've been spoiled for so long, with all the power we wanted, coming from the TF's. AFR's as long as you had the money to play......but i guess there's a new kid in town.....LS3/L92 lol....that's affordable and in the right hands could make crazy power on the "CHEAP"
I've had LS motors since there inception.....and have access to a Dyno on weekends.
I got my hands on a set of L92's and an LS3 intake.
I've been toying around with this set up, and slowly i have been gaining power and torque.
there's 10/12 cams laying around the shop from when we were testing the LS1-2, heads.
And your right about reconsidering my thinking, I'm beginning to understand the nature of the beast.
I tried a reverse split, just for the hell of it, i grabbed one of the cams on the shelf, in the 230's 114+2 and made great power with only 8° of overlap, 539HP / 520TQ at 26° of timing on an 6.0L block, this is a Cam Grind that's not supposed to work, but i got it to work, and i was impressed at the out come.
The engine i am using is a 6.0L aluminum block,10.6:1 CR, cleaned up, not ported, L92 heads with stock valves, stock rockers, stock water pump, 1-3/4 headers 5' of 2-1/2" pipe hooked up to flowmaster mufflers, and some heat resistant hoses, hooked up to the end of the muffler and out the bay door they go lol...
I am trying to simulate engine load as much as possible...
My next cam will have an LSL lobe.....still in the 230's...
Last edited by crakhead; 01-08-2010 at 10:10 PM.
01-03-2010, 10:46 AM
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I'm fairly new to the L92/LS3 craze lol even though it's been around for a few years now.
we've been spoiled for so long, with all the power we wanted, coming from the TF's. AFR's as long as you had the money to play......but i guess there's a new kid in town.....LS3/L92 lol....that's affordable and in the right hands could make crazy power on the "CHEAP"
I've had LS motors since there inception.....and have access to a Dyno on weekends.
I got my hands on a set of L92's and an LS3 intake.
I've been toying around with this set up, and slowly i have been gaining power and torque.
there's 10/12 cams laying around the shop from when we were testing the LS1-2, heads.
And your right about reconsidering my thinking, I'm beginning to understand the nature of the beast.
I tried a reverse split, just for the hell of it, i grabbed one of the cams on the shelf, in the 230's 114+2 and made great power with only 8° of overlap, 539HP / 520TQ at 26° of timing on an 6.0L block, this is a Cam Grind that's not supposed to work, but i got it to work, and i was impressed at the out come.
The engine i am using is a 6.0L aluminum block,10.6:1 CR, cleaned up, not ported, L92 heads with stock valves, stock rockers, stock water pump, 1-3/4 headers 5' of 2-1/2" pipe hooked up to flowmaster mufflers, and 7' of rubber hoses hooked up to the end of the muffler and out the bay door they go lol...
I am trying to simulate real engine load as much as possible...
My next cam will have an LSL intake lobe and an XER exhaust lobe.....still in the 230's...
we've been spoiled for so long, with all the power we wanted, coming from the TF's. AFR's as long as you had the money to play......but i guess there's a new kid in town.....LS3/L92 lol....that's affordable and in the right hands could make crazy power on the "CHEAP"
I've had LS motors since there inception.....and have access to a Dyno on weekends.
I got my hands on a set of L92's and an LS3 intake.
I've been toying around with this set up, and slowly i have been gaining power and torque.
there's 10/12 cams laying around the shop from when we were testing the LS1-2, heads.
And your right about reconsidering my thinking, I'm beginning to understand the nature of the beast.
I tried a reverse split, just for the hell of it, i grabbed one of the cams on the shelf, in the 230's 114+2 and made great power with only 8° of overlap, 539HP / 520TQ at 26° of timing on an 6.0L block, this is a Cam Grind that's not supposed to work, but i got it to work, and i was impressed at the out come.
The engine i am using is a 6.0L aluminum block,10.6:1 CR, cleaned up, not ported, L92 heads with stock valves, stock rockers, stock water pump, 1-3/4 headers 5' of 2-1/2" pipe hooked up to flowmaster mufflers, and 7' of rubber hoses hooked up to the end of the muffler and out the bay door they go lol...
I am trying to simulate real engine load as much as possible...
My next cam will have an LSL intake lobe and an XER exhaust lobe.....still in the 230's...
did you try any smaller cams?
01-03-2010, 11:43 AM
#12
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I haven't reached that far into the shelf yet, but i know there are a few combos in there... 218's, 220's, 230's, 240's.....reverse split, wide splits, and even straight up cams, like 224/224/ .581 .581 112LSA...the problem is i could only use the Dyno on Sundays, and when I'm done, i have to clean up, and leave it the way i found it, the dyno room is spotless....And it's just me and my dogs, lol.... so go figure, i could only do one or maybe two cams at any given time....cause i make multiple pulls on each cam to play with AFR, and Timing to see what kind of power can i get out of them.
Last edited by crakhead; 01-08-2010 at 10:06 PM.
01-03-2010, 12:01 PM
#13
I'm fairly new to the L92/LS3 craze lol even though it's been around for a few years now.
we've been spoiled for so long, with all the power we wanted, coming from the TF's. AFR's as long as you had the money to play......but i guess there's a new kid in town.....LS3/L92 lol....that's affordable and in the right hands could make crazy power on the "CHEAP"
I've had LS motors since there inception.....and have access to a Dyno on weekends.
I got my hands on a set of L92's and an LS3 intake.
I've been toying around with this set up, and slowly i have been gaining power and torque.
there's 10/12 cams laying around the shop from when we were testing the LS1-2, heads.
And your right about reconsidering my thinking, I'm beginning to understand the nature of the beast.
I tried a reverse split, just for the hell of it, i grabbed one of the cams on the shelf, in the 230's 114+2 and made great power with only 8° of overlap, 539HP / 520TQ at 26° of timing on an 6.0L block, this is a Cam Grind that's not supposed to work, but i got it to work, and i was impressed at the out come.
The engine i am using is a 6.0L aluminum block,10.6:1 CR, cleaned up, not ported, L92 heads with stock valves, stock rockers, stock water pump, 1-3/4 headers 5' of 2-1/2" pipe hooked up to flowmaster mufflers, and 7' of rubber hoses hooked up to the end of the muffler and out the bay door they go lol...
I am trying to simulate real engine load as much as possible...
My next cam will have an LSL intake lobe and an XER exhaust lobe.....still in the 230's...
we've been spoiled for so long, with all the power we wanted, coming from the TF's. AFR's as long as you had the money to play......but i guess there's a new kid in town.....LS3/L92 lol....that's affordable and in the right hands could make crazy power on the "CHEAP"
I've had LS motors since there inception.....and have access to a Dyno on weekends.
I got my hands on a set of L92's and an LS3 intake.
I've been toying around with this set up, and slowly i have been gaining power and torque.
there's 10/12 cams laying around the shop from when we were testing the LS1-2, heads.
And your right about reconsidering my thinking, I'm beginning to understand the nature of the beast.
I tried a reverse split, just for the hell of it, i grabbed one of the cams on the shelf, in the 230's 114+2 and made great power with only 8° of overlap, 539HP / 520TQ at 26° of timing on an 6.0L block, this is a Cam Grind that's not supposed to work, but i got it to work, and i was impressed at the out come.
The engine i am using is a 6.0L aluminum block,10.6:1 CR, cleaned up, not ported, L92 heads with stock valves, stock rockers, stock water pump, 1-3/4 headers 5' of 2-1/2" pipe hooked up to flowmaster mufflers, and 7' of rubber hoses hooked up to the end of the muffler and out the bay door they go lol...
I am trying to simulate real engine load as much as possible...
My next cam will have an LSL intake lobe and an XER exhaust lobe.....still in the 230's...
Great work, you're on top of things. There is probably even more research on Corvette Forums if you ever go over there. Sent you a pm.
01-03-2010, 12:18 PM
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When i posted "cleaned up", i DE Burred the rough casting, and sanded down the runners and bowl area, but just lightly, nothing close to what WCCH heads look like....and yes stock valve job, they come with a three angle valve job in stock form.
I haven't reached that far into the shelf yet, but i know there are a few combos in there... 218's, 220's, 230's, 240's.....reverse split, wide splits, and even straight up cams, like 224/224/ .581 .581 112LSA...the problem is i could only use the Dyno on Sundays, and when I'm done i have to arrange it to it's normal operating status....And it's just me and my dogs,lol.... so go figure, i could only do one or maybe two cams at any given time....cause i make multiple pulls on each cam to play with AFR, and Timing to see what kind of power can i get out of them.
I haven't reached that far into the shelf yet, but i know there are a few combos in there... 218's, 220's, 230's, 240's.....reverse split, wide splits, and even straight up cams, like 224/224/ .581 .581 112LSA...the problem is i could only use the Dyno on Sundays, and when I'm done i have to arrange it to it's normal operating status....And it's just me and my dogs,lol.... so go figure, i could only do one or maybe two cams at any given time....cause i make multiple pulls on each cam to play with AFR, and Timing to see what kind of power can i get out of them.
i saw a post awhile back,can't remember which forum,that said there is power to be had in just a VJ..i don't know how good the OEM VJ is,but in most cases on other heads you can pick up a decent amount of CFM with a better VJ..
thanks for posting up,good to hear other people working on these L92 combos..
01-03-2010, 06:48 PM
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539#wheels 520 tq?.
not likely at the wheels more like 430tq@ rears and 480hp. id believe it on engine dyno. All those cams u mention have been tested.
I'd have my money on TS cams they are in front of the LS3 cam test shootout. The 229/236 makes only 1 hp less but more tq on its 112 lsa.
Id be looking at these if I were buying a cam for one.
not likely at the wheels more like 430tq@ rears and 480hp. id believe it on engine dyno. All those cams u mention have been tested.I'd have my money on TS cams they are in front of the LS3 cam test shootout. The 229/236 makes only 1 hp less but more tq on its 112 lsa.
Id be looking at these if I were buying a cam for one.
01-03-2010, 07:22 PM
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539#wheels 520 tq?. not likely at the wheels more like 430tq@ rears and 480hp. id believe it on engine dyno. All those cams u mention have been tested.
I'd have my money on TS cams they are in front of the LS3 cam test shootout. The 229/236 makes only 1 hp less but more tq on its 112 lsa.
Id be looking at these if I were buying a cam for one.
not likely at the wheels more like 430tq@ rears and 480hp. id believe it on engine dyno. All those cams u mention have been tested.I'd have my money on TS cams they are in front of the LS3 cam test shootout. The 229/236 makes only 1 hp less but more tq on its 112 lsa.
Id be looking at these if I were buying a cam for one.
01-03-2010, 09:44 PM
#17
539#wheels 520 tq?. not likely at the wheels more like 430tq@ rears and 480hp. id believe it on engine dyno. All those cams u mention have been tested.
I'd have my money on TS cams they are in front of the LS3 cam test shootout. The 229/236 makes only 1 hp less but more tq on its 112 lsa.
Id be looking at these if I were buying a cam for one.
not likely at the wheels more like 430tq@ rears and 480hp. id believe it on engine dyno. All those cams u mention have been tested.I'd have my money on TS cams they are in front of the LS3 cam test shootout. The 229/236 makes only 1 hp less but more tq on its 112 lsa.
Id be looking at these if I were buying a cam for one.
If you compare the dyno graphs of the 225 cam with the 231 cam the hp on the 231 is the same as stock until you get above 5k and the tq. is not much better, but with the 225 cam it maintains high hp and tq. levels throughout the power band but eventually giving up 8 hp up top (a sacrifice I am willing to make).
Any thoughts?
01-04-2010, 07:02 PM
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The camshaft is setup that way because that's what we had the best luck with on the engine dyno. We absolutely don't just select a camshaft & install it in a car without doing tons of testing. That camshaft was a result of many different camshafts that were tested one after another in a effort to maximize overall power across a very broad power band.
I don't believe anyone else in the LS industry spend the developmental time on camshafts that we do here @ TSP.
I don't believe anyone else in the LS industry spend the developmental time on camshafts that we do here @ TSP.
How's the PTV clearance using this cam on an LS2 with the L92 heads?
I am very interested in this Cam, if you get a chance PM me, instead of posting online.
there's stuff i would like to talk to you in private...
Also who's making these cam for you?...I've been reading some post on people having issues with comp cams.
Between this, and the constant 918 spring issues.
Apparently Comp had a run of soft cams that did not harden properly.
The lifters are stock.
Last edited by crakhead; 01-08-2010 at 10:01 PM.
01-08-2010, 10:49 AM
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Hey Matt, this is the cam i am interested in...25-231236.
I've sent you a PM, e mail, and no answer.
if i could achieve the 80 hp you guys claim with this cam, i won't have to spend all my free time on Sundays trying to find a cam that works for my application.....
6.0L LS2, with a set of L92 Heads, and an LS3 intake manifold.
My only concern is the high lift on that cam......I've been told by many in the Know, to stay at, or bellow .600.....
When i say in the know, i meant, professional tuners, and a lot of Vendors here, and other forums, which i will not name do to there proprietary status.
Thanks,
JM
I've sent you a PM, e mail, and no answer.
if i could achieve the 80 hp you guys claim with this cam, i won't have to spend all my free time on Sundays trying to find a cam that works for my application.....
6.0L LS2, with a set of L92 Heads, and an LS3 intake manifold.
My only concern is the high lift on that cam......I've been told by many in the Know, to stay at, or bellow .600.....
When i say in the know, i meant, professional tuners, and a lot of Vendors here, and other forums, which i will not name do to there proprietary status.
Thanks,
JM
Last edited by crakhead; 01-08-2010 at 09:57 PM.