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Generation IV Internal Engine
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Old 04-10-2011, 06:29 PM   #1
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Default Budget 440 ls2 build

I picked up a used block on the forum for cheap and it included arp main studs and head studs but the bore was going to have to be .030 over. So Erl is punching it out to 4.185 for me and fitting some wiseco pistons for a 4 in. stroke. (Those guys sure seem decent to deal with. ) The heads will be hand ported ls3's with a 102 matched up. I have a used 242/248 cam. Some ls7 springs, trickflow 3/8 pushrods, a used ported/shimmed oil pump, .040 head gaskets. Comp should be about 11.5. It looks like I can get it done for about $6,000.00 not counting my labor of course. I used to race 440 mopars with my gto when I was in college...that was a long time ago. The idea that we can now get that many cubes from a tiny little 400lb engine is amazing to me.
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Old 04-10-2011, 09:23 PM   #2
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Why are you wanting to use LS7 springs?
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:02 AM   #3
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Is that LS2 block a resleeved one? If not good luck running it..
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He also put down 319 rwhp UNcorrected. So my car probably makes a bit more than that being since I only have 4 gears to his 6.
My LS1 is a lean, mean, mother ****in, tire shredding beast that preys on unsuspecting mustangs like the 5.0 that bit the dust of my well oiled machine. I posted how many youtube vids to prove it?
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:03 AM   #4
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Is that LS2 block a resleeved one? If not good luck running it..
You totally read my mind...
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:08 AM   #5
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Is that LS2 block a resleeved one? If not good luck running it..
Pretty sure that ERL would be resleeving it, that's their bread and butter.
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Old 04-11-2011, 01:32 AM   #6
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The LS2 block is not able to be bored out to a 4.185 bore, so I will go ahead and say it's a 100% chance it's getting re-sleeved.
An ERL LS2 Resleeved 440 CID Stroker (4.185 Bore x 4.00 Stroke) Dry sleeve setup would be bada$$. I'm assuming this will be a NA build?? It would surely hold some Spray too tho. And good Luck with the build! I'm positive you'll love it!
FWIW, You may want to consider going to a 4.155 Bore and have that extra piece of mind in case you ever need to bore it out a little bit later on. At 4.185 on the bore you are maxed out. ERL does offer a .005 hone after that initial 4.185 bore, but they did say it's your last hope if you need a rebuild. Basically your living on the edge at that point b/c in the event your cylinder walls are worn beyond a .005 hone you'll need to have the block made into a Wet Sleeve setup or just trash everything and start over. You can go from a dry sleeve to a wet sleeve setup tho in the future if need be, but you can't go from a wet sleeve setup to a dry sleeve setup. That's what I was told when talking with them! I do believe that the 4.155 bore and the 4.00 stroke would still net you 434 CI's as well. Which is plenty on an NA build. But if you want the 440 CI for the COOL Factor, I totally understand. It's like saying I got a 454 under the hood (in an LS1 car) and everyone is like WHAT! lol Considering we all know a 454 doesn't come factory in these cars.
ERL is an awesome company to deal with and you'll get what you pay for that's for sure.
Keep us all updated if you go this route...

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Old 04-11-2011, 06:04 AM   #7
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Default Erl 454

Not to steal your thread, but I just ordered a ERL 454 short block. I'm getting WCCH to do their stage 3 porting to my ls3 heads.

These guys have a good rep on the forums. Sounds like your setup will be a monster.

What did you have the cam in before?

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Old 04-11-2011, 10:46 AM   #8
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The cam was just a purchase off of the forum. The game plan with this build is to put the money toward the necessary parts but to not spend it in areas not necessary...ie the large bore will contribute to airflow and keeping the stroke at 4in will help with rpm versus smaller bore longer stroke cranks. As long as the cam has some decent duration...the exact size will not have as big effect on power output as compared to the head flow/intake combo will. I have the springs from lsx ls7 heads(which were changed to doubles) so I am going to try them out...the ls3 heads have the light intake so I should be fine.
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:51 AM   #9
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ERL does offer a .005 hone after that initial 4.185 bore, but they did say it's your last hope if you need a rebuild. Basically your living on the edge at that point b/c in the event your cylinder walls are worn beyond a .005 hone you'll need to have the block made into a Wet Sleeve setup or just trash everything and start over. You can go from a dry sleeve to a wet sleeve setup tho in the future if need be, but you can't go from a wet sleeve setup to a dry sleeve setup.
Yes it is their dry sleeve. I bounced back and forth on the 4.185 vs 4.155 for just the reasons you stated. I do not ussually spray my engines but would def have gone with the 434 if blown or spraying.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:02 PM   #10
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Interesting you use the word budget and 440 in the same sentence.

Considering ERL gets $5K for their dry sleeve short block without shipping, your core, I don't see how you could get the rest complete for $1K more unless you have a ton of parts at home. Personally, I would be hesitant to put a lot of used parts into a $5K shortblock. Hope the rest of your drive train is up to the challenge - if not, figure to spend a lot here too.

As recommended above, the LS7 springs might not be your best bet.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:40 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ChucksZ06 View Post
Yes it is their dry sleeve. I bounced back and forth on the 4.185 vs 4.155 for just the reasons you stated. I do not ussually spray my engines but would def have gone with the 434 if blown or spraying.
Awesome, I didn't know if you were aware or not. That's why I posted the info above.
For an NA setup you'll be fine, ERL does top notch work, so I wouldn't hesitate buying anything from them.
I always research things ALOT before buying, so I figured I could help a lil bit with some info for you.

Good Luck Man!
I'm waiting for the build to start. lol
Keep us posted!

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Old 04-11-2011, 01:39 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ChucksZ06 View Post
I have the springs from lsx ls7 heads(which were changed to doubles) so I am going to try them out...the ls3 heads have the light intake so I should be fine.
LS7 heads have a 1.96" installed height while LS3 heads usually have 1.80" installed height. I'm not certain, but I'm willing to bet the LS7 springs will go into coilbind on the LS3 heads.
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LT1Formula007 View Post
The LS2 block is not able to be bored out to a 4.185 bore, so I will go ahead and say it's a 100% chance it's getting re-sleeved.
An ERL LS2 Resleeved 440 CID Stroker (4.185 Bore x 4.00 Stroke) Dry sleeve setup would be bada$$. I'm assuming this will be a NA build?? It would surely hold some Spray too tho. And good Luck with the build! I'm positive you'll love it!
FWIW, You may want to consider going to a 4.155 Bore and have that extra piece of mind in case you ever need to bore it out a little bit later on. At 4.185 on the bore you are maxed out. ERL does offer a .005 hone after that initial 4.185 bore, but they did say it's your last hope if you need a rebuild. Basically your living on the edge at that point b/c in the event your cylinder walls are worn beyond a .005 hone you'll need to have the block made into a Wet Sleeve setup or just trash everything and start over. You can go from a dry sleeve to a wet sleeve setup tho in the future if need be, but you can't go from a wet sleeve setup to a dry sleeve setup. That's what I was told when talking with them! I do believe that the 4.155 bore and the 4.00 stroke would still net you 434 CI's as well. Which is plenty on an NA build. But if you want the 440 CI for the COOL Factor, I totally understand. It's like saying I got a 454 under the hood (in an LS1 car) and everyone is like WHAT! lol Considering we all know a 454 doesn't come factory in these cars.
ERL is an awesome company to deal with and you'll get what you pay for that's for sure.
Keep us all updated if you go this route...

-James
Just making sure..
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Originally Posted by Mystic Z-28 View Post
He also put down 319 rwhp UNcorrected. So my car probably makes a bit more than that being since I only have 4 gears to his 6.
My LS1 is a lean, mean, mother ****in, tire shredding beast that preys on unsuspecting mustangs like the 5.0 that bit the dust of my well oiled machine. I posted how many youtube vids to prove it?
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you just subconsciously admitted that my level of intellect also provokes your insecurities.
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:12 PM   #14
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Considering ERL gets $5K for their dry sleeve short block without shipping, your core, I don't see how you could get the rest complete
Everything turns into an arguement on the forum...FYI ERL charges 1550.00 to dry sleeve customer supplied block. I am doing the rotating assembly myself. Yeah I think I will need some double springs for that cam...what was I thinking. HA.

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Old 04-12-2011, 05:58 PM   #15
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Interesting you use the word budget and 440 in the same sentence.

Considering ERL gets $5K for their dry sleeve short block without shipping, your core, I don't see how you could get the rest complete for $1K more unless you have a ton of parts at home
yeah thats only if you have them start with a fresh block of their own like chuck said. If you send it to them, its much much cheaper. 5k just for sleeves would be ridiculous seeing you can get a brand new lsx short block for same ballpark price.

ERL never ***** around, cant wait to see this bad boy in action!
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:07 PM   #16
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yeah thats only if you have them start with a fresh block of their own like chuck said. If you send it to them, its much much cheaper. 5k just for sleeves would be ridiculous seeing you can get a brand new lsx short block for same ballpark price.

ERL never ***** around, cant wait to see this bad boy in action!
The price of $5K is for an assembled dry sleeve short block without a core - this is a $1200 option for them to supply. I am in no way being critical of their work, if I had the money now I would own one. I actually believe their Superdeck wet sleeve design is an even better buy recognizing it does cost more. The superdeck option also works with LS1/6 blocks for guys that want to use what they already own.
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:07 PM
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