Does drag racing affect alignment?
10-21-2008, 09:48 AM
#1
Does drag racing affect alignment? I have a decent understanding of alignments/etc., but I was just curious what tech had to say about this.
I'm not sure if the shop is feeding me a line of bs or not. I have a turbo car (55k miles) with all stock suspension except an aftermarket k-member. Installed that and tie rod ends in March, and had it aligned. The insides of the tires were worn a little at that point, but not too badly.
I got under the car the other day and the insides were worn really really bad (showing cord). I've put maybe 3k on it since March. I took it back and got charged for another alignment. The toe was off on both sides, and caster on the left side was out also. They said that when I drag race the car, the front suspension slamming down after the launch is enough to throw it off.
I don't quite buy that. It's an auto and it does not pull the tires when I race. Furthermore I only had 5 passes on it since the alignment
Maybe I'm wrong though. What are your thoughts?
I'm not sure if the shop is feeding me a line of bs or not. I have a turbo car (55k miles) with all stock suspension except an aftermarket k-member. Installed that and tie rod ends in March, and had it aligned. The insides of the tires were worn a little at that point, but not too badly.
I got under the car the other day and the insides were worn really really bad (showing cord). I've put maybe 3k on it since March. I took it back and got charged for another alignment. The toe was off on both sides, and caster on the left side was out also. They said that when I drag race the car, the front suspension slamming down after the launch is enough to throw it off.
I don't quite buy that. It's an auto and it does not pull the tires when I race. Furthermore I only had 5 passes on it since the alignment
Maybe I'm wrong though. What are your thoughts?
10-21-2008, 09:54 AM
#2
Sounds like the are feeding you a load of bs. If you pull the wheels 3 ft off of the ground then slam down i maybe could see it effecting the alignment but that also going to damage other parts also. It sounds like they didn't do the alignment correctly the first time, they had the camber off.
Last edited by BMR Tech2; 10-21-2008 at 04:07 PM.
10-21-2008, 10:05 AM
#3
Sounds like the are feeding you a load of bs. If you pull the wheels 3 ft off of the ground then slam down i maybe could see it effecting the alignment but that also going to damamge other parts also. It sounds like they didn't do the alignment correctly the first time, they had the camber off.
so there is no slamming...guess it was bs.
10-21-2008, 10:17 AM
#4
They didn't let the suspension of the car settle after each adjustment?
I have only had a handful of good alignments in my life.
Every time I put new tires on my car either one side or the other wears out first. Never the same.
Probably because the people running the machine got kicked out of their McDonalds job.
I have only had a handful of good alignments in my life.
Every time I put new tires on my car either one side or the other wears out first. Never the same.
Probably because the people running the machine got kicked out of their McDonalds job.
10-21-2008, 11:38 AM
#5
They didn't let the suspension of the car settle after each adjustment?
I have only had a handful of good alignments in my life.
Every time I put new tires on my car either one side or the other wears out first. Never the same.
Probably because the people running the machine got kicked out of their McDonalds job.
I have only had a handful of good alignments in my life.
Every time I put new tires on my car either one side or the other wears out first. Never the same.
Probably because the people running the machine got kicked out of their McDonalds job.
10-21-2008, 11:47 AM
#6
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I've done aligments for the last 7 yrs and it sounds like what BMR says. There's too much of a negative camber. They couldve done the alignment and the camber be within factory specs, you know just inside the outside spec to make it fall into the green. That being said I would tell them to set camber at dead 0 and zero out the toe for best tire wear. I can't remember off hand but i wanna say the factory camber settings is negative biased.
We dont do it for all cars just our personal ride but we have a person of similar weight sit in the drivers seat while we do the alignment. Youd be surprised how much a person sitting in the car can throw off the camber specs. Next time you get it aligned wait till after caster sweep then check specs then climb in your car and check how much camber moved. hope this helps some.
We dont do it for all cars just our personal ride but we have a person of similar weight sit in the drivers seat while we do the alignment. Youd be surprised how much a person sitting in the car can throw off the camber specs. Next time you get it aligned wait till after caster sweep then check specs then climb in your car and check how much camber moved. hope this helps some.
10-21-2008, 11:54 AM
#7
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A lot of the alignment techs at stealerships are trained by the front end(suspension) guys. When I was at Firestone they sent us to ATL for 2 days worth of alignment training. Now Im not saying that Firestone is the best place to go since a lot of the techs dont do alignments correctly even though they were trained to do it right. Alot of techs around here go drive the car and if the steering wheel is straight and it doesnt pull to one side or the other the pull it onto alignment rack, set it up and then hit print without making any adjusments as long as everything is in the green(factory specs and tolerences). That is not an alignment in my book.
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10-21-2008, 12:37 PM
#8
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I had zero alignment creep w/ my K-member until
it broke. After I fixed it, again had right-on alignment
(going by the pre-align numbers when I got tires).
Got to be some other reason for geometry to change.
Any signs that the clamping bolts/nuts have "skated"
from the original location? Tubular arms that might
have bent?
it broke. After I fixed it, again had right-on alignment
(going by the pre-align numbers when I got tires).
Got to be some other reason for geometry to change.
Any signs that the clamping bolts/nuts have "skated"
from the original location? Tubular arms that might
have bent?
10-21-2008, 01:18 PM
#9
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What exactly where your alignment readings when you had them do it? If you can get the car around -.5 camber, 4.5 caster and 0 toe then that should be the great for tire wear. If the alignment wasn't around there then it was probably wearing. The question is, is the alignment moving on you and if so then why?
Are you at stock ride height? The stock alignment actually has a bit of positive caster which wears the outside of the tires out. I used to often wear the tires that way when I first had the car.
Are you at stock ride height? The stock alignment actually has a bit of positive caster which wears the outside of the tires out. I used to often wear the tires that way when I first had the car.
10-21-2008, 02:00 PM
#10
What exactly where your alignment readings when you had them do it? If you can get the car around -.5 camber, 4.5 caster and 0 toe then that should be the great for tire wear. If the alignment wasn't around there then it was probably wearing. The question is, is the alignment moving on you and if so then why?
Are you at stock ride height? The stock alignment actually has a bit of positive caster which wears the outside of the tires out. I used to often wear the tires that way when I first had the car.
Are you at stock ride height? The stock alignment actually has a bit of positive caster which wears the outside of the tires out. I used to often wear the tires that way when I first had the car.
Yes, stock ride height.
10-21-2008, 02:02 PM
#11
I had zero alignment creep w/ my K-member until
it broke. After I fixed it, again had right-on alignment
(going by the pre-align numbers when I got tires).
Got to be some other reason for geometry to change.
Any signs that the clamping bolts/nuts have "skated"
from the original location? Tubular arms that might
have bent?
it broke. After I fixed it, again had right-on alignment
(going by the pre-align numbers when I got tires).
Got to be some other reason for geometry to change.
Any signs that the clamping bolts/nuts have "skated"
from the original location? Tubular arms that might
have bent?
10-21-2008, 04:02 PM
#12
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Yeah I guess I was just wondering what the previous measurement read at. If your camber wasn't that far off then you could possibly have a different problem. I only have like -1.5 and I'm lowered and my tires don't wear that bad really. I'd like to get a little more, but I can't. You couldn't have more than -1.5 could you have?
10-21-2008, 07:41 PM
#14
Since you push the issue do you know of replacement bushings. Poly or rubber...I have heard of them for some cars but never seen a F body replacement short of getting new a arms. Which where would you get those?
10-21-2008, 09:58 PM
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I completely understand your argument over the bushing being old especially since these cars were last produced in 2K2.
Since you push the issue do you know of replacement bushings. Poly or rubber...I have heard of them for some cars but never seen a F body replacement short of getting new a arms. Which where would you get those?
Since you push the issue do you know of replacement bushings. Poly or rubber...I have heard of them for some cars but never seen a F body replacement short of getting new a arms. Which where would you get those?
Here goes the MOOG Part # K6490. They're made of rubber, which is pretty much fine for most "race track vehicles with possbile street duty" applications.
You should be able to source these at almost any of the usual parts stores under different labels/brands (they're all pretty much from the same manufacturing plants).
I'll include this thread since the parts discussed here have information that may pertain to the other thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/992147-anti-squeek-anti-garbage-suspension-thread.html
It includes some discussion about the poly vs. rubber in that area. What I can say is that, it's not so much the material alone, but also bushing/bearing design. The only type of "poly bushings" I prefer in my control arms/suspension links would be ones like a spherical bearing type (e.g. "Johnny joint", "poly ball", and ones like them).
[thread hijack over]
but yeah, I think what's happened so far is the usual procedure issues with concerns to the alignment done. Nevertheless, when the stock front LCA bushings get worn, the it really messes things up, during alignment adjustment as well as when driving (straight or cornering).
Last edited by Foxxtron; 10-21-2008 at 10:04 PM.
10-21-2008, 11:57 PM
#16
Sounds like too much toe-out, possibly combined with under inflated tires.
I run 1/32" toe-in, 4.3 +caster, and -1.5 camber. And I have no uneven tire wear that I can notice, furthermore I've always had at least -1 to -1.5 camber on my alignments over the last 8yrs.The only time I had a wear problem like that was when my "toe" was way off ( too much toe-out).
I run 1/32" toe-in, 4.3 +caster, and -1.5 camber. And I have no uneven tire wear that I can notice, furthermore I've always had at least -1 to -1.5 camber on my alignments over the last 8yrs.The only time I had a wear problem like that was when my "toe" was way off ( too much toe-out).
10-22-2008, 12:08 AM
#17
[Thread hijack warning]
Here goes the MOOG Part # K6490. They're made of rubber, which is pretty much fine for most "race track vehicles with possbile street duty" applications.
You should be able to source these at almost any of the usual parts stores under different labels/brands (they're all pretty much from the same manufacturing plants).
I'll include this thread since the parts discussed here have information that may pertain to the other thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=992147
It includes some discussion about the poly vs. rubber in that area. What I can say is that, it's not so much the material alone, but also bushing/bearing design. The only type of "poly bushings" I prefer in my control arms/suspension links would be ones like a spherical bearing type (e.g. "Johnny joint", "poly ball", and ones like them).
[thread hijack over]
but yeah, I think what's happened so far is the usual procedure issues with concerns to the alignment done. Nevertheless, when the stock front LCA bushings get worn, the it really messes things up, during alignment adjustment as well as when driving (straight or cornering).
Here goes the MOOG Part # K6490. They're made of rubber, which is pretty much fine for most "race track vehicles with possbile street duty" applications.
You should be able to source these at almost any of the usual parts stores under different labels/brands (they're all pretty much from the same manufacturing plants).
I'll include this thread since the parts discussed here have information that may pertain to the other thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=992147
It includes some discussion about the poly vs. rubber in that area. What I can say is that, it's not so much the material alone, but also bushing/bearing design. The only type of "poly bushings" I prefer in my control arms/suspension links would be ones like a spherical bearing type (e.g. "Johnny joint", "poly ball", and ones like them).
[thread hijack over]
but yeah, I think what's happened so far is the usual procedure issues with concerns to the alignment done. Nevertheless, when the stock front LCA bushings get worn, the it really messes things up, during alignment adjustment as well as when driving (straight or cornering).
I have done them on a FWD car before. I had to burn out the old ones and press in the new bushings. Same procedure? It sucked ***** on the FWD J car but I was able to do it. Those a arms were not designed the same though.
I think I might have to do this maintenance on my car....
Is it over yet? When will this stuff stop....
Last edited by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed; 10-22-2008 at 12:17 AM.
10-22-2008, 12:23 AM
#18
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I usually take the whole arm off, and use an arbour press. It's not easy, but it was worth it, especially since the caster bushing rubber was almost completely torn between the fitted outer sleeve and the inner bolt sleeve.
