fra and ftra
01-26-2009, 04:07 PM
#1
fra and ftra so from what ive searched the fra mod is not so good because it sucks hot air when stoped...so if the ftra kit requires you to do the fra mod, but obviously sucks air from under the car, will it still get hot air while at a stop?? wondering this beacuse it happens to be right in front of the radiator.
are they worth it???
sorry to bring an old topic up....need to know before i decide to do either one.....
are they worth it???
sorry to bring an old topic up....need to know before i decide to do either one.....
01-26-2009, 04:32 PM
#5
IAT starts pulling timing at 98*
I have my fan on temp at 197* and often see IAT over 98* with a very very small FRA opening.
I've seen it close to 150* IAT idling in low 90* weather.
And yea, I know you get heat soak through to the IAT sensor.
01-26-2009, 08:19 PM
#7
Stock fan on temp is 226*
IAT starts pulling timing at 98*
I have my fan on temp at 197* and often see IAT over 98* with a very very small FRA opening.
I've seen it close to 150* IAT idling in low 90* weather.
And yea, I know you get heat soak through to the IAT sensor.
IAT starts pulling timing at 98*
I have my fan on temp at 197* and often see IAT over 98* with a very very small FRA opening.
I've seen it close to 150* IAT idling in low 90* weather.
And yea, I know you get heat soak through to the IAT sensor.
also will going with the ftra help out with theheatsoak issue??? in other words, it would be the "right way" of doing the ram air mod, by using the ftra.
to eliminate any issues...
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01-26-2009, 11:05 PM
#8
Either way it's going to get heat soak.
Any set up that will feed the bottom of the filter with cooler than engine compartment air will lower the IAT sensor reading faster when the car gets moving.
I just don't see it possible to see IAT readings the same as ambient air readings while you're idling stopped.
But there is a benefit to cooling it down as quick as possible.
01-26-2009, 11:06 PM
#9
Stock fan on temp is 226*
IAT starts pulling timing at 98*
I have my fan on temp at 197* and often see IAT over 98* with a very very small FRA opening.
I've seen it close to 150* IAT idling in low 90* weather.
And yea, I know you get heat soak through to the IAT sensor.
IAT starts pulling timing at 98*
I have my fan on temp at 197* and often see IAT over 98* with a very very small FRA opening.
I've seen it close to 150* IAT idling in low 90* weather.
And yea, I know you get heat soak through to the IAT sensor.
01-26-2009, 11:31 PM
#10
I have seen the IAT drop pretty quick on a friends car with the fra once we got moving.
And I also own an SS and the IAT drops faster on that car with no fra.
I'm just not sure how much of a difference it makes in a situation like drag racing, waiting in the staging lanes is long enough to get the IAT up. Sure it'll drop, but more towards the end of the track, so maybe the majority of the gain is a ram effect.
I'm not sure about it all but I do plan on making my own set up real soon, maybe tomorrow. I've had the materials, I just need to find the time.
My idea is not like the ftra, my idea is going to be a true ram air.
01-26-2009, 11:43 PM
#11
No, but the temps are way too high.
I have seen the IAT drop pretty quick on a friends car with the fra once we got moving.
And I also own an SS and the IAT drops faster on that car with no fra.
I'm just not sure how much of a difference it makes in a situation like drag racing, waiting in the staging lanes is long enough to get the IAT up. Sure it'll drop, but more towards the end of the track, so maybe the majority of the gain is a ram effect.
I'm not sure about it all but I do plan on making my own set up real soon, maybe tomorrow. I've had the materials, I just need to find the time.
My idea is not like the ftra, my idea is going to be a true ram air.
I have seen the IAT drop pretty quick on a friends car with the fra once we got moving.
And I also own an SS and the IAT drops faster on that car with no fra.
I'm just not sure how much of a difference it makes in a situation like drag racing, waiting in the staging lanes is long enough to get the IAT up. Sure it'll drop, but more towards the end of the track, so maybe the majority of the gain is a ram effect.
I'm not sure about it all but I do plan on making my own set up real soon, maybe tomorrow. I've had the materials, I just need to find the time.
My idea is not like the ftra, my idea is going to be a true ram air.
01-27-2009, 12:44 AM
#12
So the consensus here is the FRA is generally a benefit once you are moving. But at a stop, engine bay temps and heat soak come into play. And this would be true whether you have FRA, FTRA, Stock, or any other type of induction setup. No motion equals build up of heat, which leads to breathing hot air.
Higher IAT readings though, I don't know about higher actual intake air temps.
Just my opinion, for testing you could route a hose out hell lets say into your airconditioned house, right into your maf.
The IAT sensor (assuming you put it in this hose) is going to be effected by, and read heat soaked through the hose from the engine compartment.
Same thing with the SS hood, it can suck air from the top, but all the heat rising up from the engine heatsoaks the whole hood. So when you do get moving it takes a mile or so to get the IAT readings down. This doesn't help 1/4 mile racing at all.
I don't have a real answer. In order to get an accurate answer you'd need to place temp sensors in various places to see whats going into the engine.
I'd imagine the IAT sensor reads temp transfered through the lid to the sensor.
That retards timing, but if you could read the actual air temp I have a feeling it would be cooler.
I think the answer is an intake set up that draws in cool air and a relocated IAT sensor that reads the air temp, not the temp of what it's mounted in.
It's 1:45am I can't think.
01-27-2009, 11:22 AM
#13
From what I've experienced, yes.
Higher IAT readings though, I don't know about higher actual intake air temps.
Just my opinion, for testing you could route a hose out hell lets say into your airconditioned house, right into your maf.
The IAT sensor (assuming you put it in this hose) is going to be effected by, and read heat soaked through the hose from the engine compartment.
Same thing with the SS hood, it can suck air from the top, but all the heat rising up from the engine heatsoaks the whole hood. So when you do get moving it takes a mile or so to get the IAT readings down. This doesn't help 1/4 mile racing at all.
I don't have a real answer. In order to get an accurate answer you'd need to place temp sensors in various places to see whats going into the engine.
I'd imagine the IAT sensor reads temp transfered through the lid to the sensor.
That retards timing, but if you could read the actual air temp I have a feeling it would be cooler.
I think the answer is an intake set up that draws in cool air and a relocated IAT sensor that reads the air temp, not the temp of what it's mounted in.
It's 1:45am I can't think.
Higher IAT readings though, I don't know about higher actual intake air temps.
Just my opinion, for testing you could route a hose out hell lets say into your airconditioned house, right into your maf.
The IAT sensor (assuming you put it in this hose) is going to be effected by, and read heat soaked through the hose from the engine compartment.
Same thing with the SS hood, it can suck air from the top, but all the heat rising up from the engine heatsoaks the whole hood. So when you do get moving it takes a mile or so to get the IAT readings down. This doesn't help 1/4 mile racing at all.
I don't have a real answer. In order to get an accurate answer you'd need to place temp sensors in various places to see whats going into the engine.
I'd imagine the IAT sensor reads temp transfered through the lid to the sensor.
That retards timing, but if you could read the actual air temp I have a feeling it would be cooler.
I think the answer is an intake set up that draws in cool air and a relocated IAT sensor that reads the air temp, not the temp of what it's mounted in.
It's 1:45am I can't think.
01-28-2009, 09:18 AM
#17
FRA mod will heat up a little bit when sitting. Almost as soon as you start moving however, it will cool right down.
Knowing what i know now, the only advantage to the FTRA is pulling air further away from the engine, however, the only time where this would actually matter is when you're idling for a while, such as in the staging lanes. But even then once you start moving, the FTRA and FRA are going to be reading the same IAT. And if you look at the charts for when the PCM starts to pull timing, it doesn't start until its well into the 90* range. It does not however, ADD timing. Hence, NO power is added.
My other gripe about the ftra and similar setups is the radiator. It blocks a good portion of it. It makes your car run hotter, pure and simple. They even state it on their site.
Not only all this, but you're also restricting your intake to a small slit vs a very large area if you clear out enough of the radiator shroud with the FRA.
As for the "ram air" effect, I don't buy it. It's a cold air intake. People can come at you with "proven track results" and the company can claim "independent testing", etc etc. But theres one HUGE thing you have to remember, this site is basically run by sponsors. They hang out here so you can buy their products. Look at the ads everywhere on the site. Look how if a product is mentioned a sponsor that sells the product jumps in to defend or push a product. It's marketing, no better than an infomercial you see on late night television. People who buy these products will also defend them to the death, for no real reason other than they don't want to look stupid.
But after me telling you all this after my own extensive research and even making a "ram air" kit myself, you still want to buy one, be my guest.
And by the way, flame away guys.
Last edited by Ironxcross; 01-28-2009 at 09:31 AM.
01-28-2009, 10:23 AM
#18
Well I have an aeroforce gauge, which lets me monitor basically anything I want, and I'll tell you this.
FRA mod will heat up a little bit when sitting. Almost as soon as you start moving however, it will cool right down.
Knowing what i know now, the only advantage to the FTRA is pulling air further away from the engine, however, the only time where this would actually matter is when you're idling for a while, such as in the staging lanes. But even then once you start moving, the FTRA and FRA are going to be reading the same IAT. And if you look at the charts for when the PCM starts to pull timing, it doesn't start until its well into the 90* range. It does not however, ADD timing. Hence, NO power is added.
My other gripe about the ftra and similar setups is the radiator. It blocks a good portion of it. It makes your car run hotter, pure and simple. They even state it on their site.
Not only all this, but you're also restricting your intake to a small slit vs a very large area if you clear out enough of the radiator shroud with the FRA.
As for the "ram air" effect, I don't buy it. It's a cold air intake. People can come at you with "proven track results" and the company can claim "independent testing", etc etc. But theres one HUGE thing you have to remember, this site is basically run by sponsors. They hang out here so you can buy their products. Look at the ads everywhere on the site. Look how if a product is mentioned a sponsor that sells the product jumps in to defend or push a product. It's marketing, no better than an infomercial you see on late night television. People who buy these products will also defend them to the death, for no real reason other than they don't want to look stupid.
But after me telling you all this after my own extensive research and even making a "ram air" kit myself, you still want to buy one, be my guest.
And by the way, flame away guys.
FRA mod will heat up a little bit when sitting. Almost as soon as you start moving however, it will cool right down.
Knowing what i know now, the only advantage to the FTRA is pulling air further away from the engine, however, the only time where this would actually matter is when you're idling for a while, such as in the staging lanes. But even then once you start moving, the FTRA and FRA are going to be reading the same IAT. And if you look at the charts for when the PCM starts to pull timing, it doesn't start until its well into the 90* range. It does not however, ADD timing. Hence, NO power is added.
My other gripe about the ftra and similar setups is the radiator. It blocks a good portion of it. It makes your car run hotter, pure and simple. They even state it on their site.
Not only all this, but you're also restricting your intake to a small slit vs a very large area if you clear out enough of the radiator shroud with the FRA.
As for the "ram air" effect, I don't buy it. It's a cold air intake. People can come at you with "proven track results" and the company can claim "independent testing", etc etc. But theres one HUGE thing you have to remember, this site is basically run by sponsors. They hang out here so you can buy their products. Look at the ads everywhere on the site. Look how if a product is mentioned a sponsor that sells the product jumps in to defend or push a product. It's marketing, no better than an infomercial you see on late night television. People who buy these products will also defend them to the death, for no real reason other than they don't want to look stupid.
But after me telling you all this after my own extensive research and even making a "ram air" kit myself, you still want to buy one, be my guest.
And by the way, flame away guys.
from the engine" then your assumptions/statements are incorrect.
Let's not overlook the benefits of a sealed/pressurized inlet.
My response is not solely derived from my personal experience with FTRA
but also via discussions with race engine builders/friends.
01-28-2009, 10:29 AM
#19
If you think the only advantage of a FTRA is "pulling air further away
from the engine" then your assumptions/statements are incorrect.
Let's not overlook the benefits of a sealed/pressurized inlet.
My response is not solely derived from my personal experience with FTRA
but also via discussions with race engine builders/friends.
from the engine" then your assumptions/statements are incorrect.
Let's not overlook the benefits of a sealed/pressurized inlet.
My response is not solely derived from my personal experience with FTRA
but also via discussions with race engine builders/friends.
Everyone I've talked to thus far has said otherwise. Yes they've heard of it, and yes they know LSX motors.