Pushing coolent?????
10-11-2009, 12:13 AM
#1
Pushing coolent????? can you push coolant out of the radiator cap under boost with a lifted head?
BUT the catch is, (if it is a lifted head) the head seems to seal back down, the car can do two back to back runs then it pushes about a gallon of coolant out on the second run, threw the radiator cap. it done it twice tonight
so we put about a gallon of water back in the radiator and run it two more times and it will do it again on th second pass. the car will shoot straight up to 230-260 on the therm.
the engine does not hydrolock nor does the exhaust smell like coolant being burnt.
can this be a simple radiator cap going bad or is the head moving just enough to push the coolant????
thanks for any input THE engine is a forged 370 317 heads arp head bolts (brand new the 4 passes in the thread) 9.9-10.0 compression 11.5 psi of boost alot of meth spinning at 6400
BUT the catch is, (if it is a lifted head) the head seems to seal back down, the car can do two back to back runs then it pushes about a gallon of coolant out on the second run, threw the radiator cap. it done it twice tonight
so we put about a gallon of water back in the radiator and run it two more times and it will do it again on th second pass. the car will shoot straight up to 230-260 on the therm.
the engine does not hydrolock nor does the exhaust smell like coolant being burnt.
can this be a simple radiator cap going bad or is the head moving just enough to push the coolant????
thanks for any input THE engine is a forged 370 317 heads arp head bolts (brand new the 4 passes in the thread) 9.9-10.0 compression 11.5 psi of boost alot of meth spinning at 6400
10-11-2009, 04:46 AM
#2
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Exactly what mine would do when it lifted the heads. With MLS gaskets it would "re seal itself", temporarily, but the damage is done, and will continue to get worse. you will need some good heads and or an o ring setup to help this problem. You want to make sure detonation is not causing this as well, the rotating assembly will thank you.
10-11-2009, 08:58 AM
#3
mine does it on back to back nitrous pulls/ then it reseals itself. wont do it on motor. then spray it 2 more times and does it again. only pushes enough to turn the light on...no where near a gallon. and it pulls it back in after it cools. thought about retorquing but heard it wont help now. and im using head studs, with tfs heads and gm 5 layers..switching to ls9's if i pull it back apart.
10-11-2009, 09:14 AM
#5
Exactly what mine would do when it lifted the heads. With MLS gaskets it would "re seal itself", temporarily, but the damage is done, and will continue to get worse. you will need some good heads and or an o ring setup to help this problem. You want to make sure detonation is not causing this as well, the rotating assembly will thank you.
10-11-2009, 09:41 AM
#6
10-11-2009, 10:16 AM
#7
i have the same proplem... drives down the road fine when i hit boost really hard the temp. goes from 170 to 210 and rises alittle. pull the resivor cap off and see it bubbling into the overflow tank. eventually it will cool back down. at first i thought it was the fact that i had a stock 305 radiatior but i think its a bigger proplem.
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10-11-2009, 02:54 PM
#8
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Trust me on this, I have been down this road with GM heads. Changing the head gaskets, and re-torquing the arp studs helps band aid the problem, but it does not solve it. You will need to take preventive measures to get rid of the problem.
10-11-2009, 05:05 PM
#9
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Ok guys the car in question is mine, we figured out today that at 22degrees it pushes water but we dropped it down to 16deg and shes been holding. What is really throwing me a curveball is that before the 317's / Arp head bolts I was running some 243's and stock head bolts with a cr of 11.3@10lbs of boost with 24degrees of timing just fine(now its @11-12lbs with the new heads/intake). So what gives? I know the timing sounds high but im spraying 28gal per hour of meth and it worked perfect before so i'm lost here.
The car does definately pull alot harder than it did before so is it just making more power with the bigger chamber from the head swap thus more cylinder pressure?
The car does definately pull alot harder than it did before so is it just making more power with the bigger chamber from the head swap thus more cylinder pressure?
10-11-2009, 05:06 PM
#10
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Get with Shawn@VASpeed, he will get it all taken care of for the oringing. He will quote you the price, it is quite reasonable with all the parts and cnc machining. You will be able to push the 4 bolts quite far with his setup.
Trust me on this, I have been down this road with GM heads. Changing the head gaskets, and re-torquing the arp studs helps band aid the problem, but it does not solve it. You will need to take preventive measures to get rid of the problem.
Trust me on this, I have been down this road with GM heads. Changing the head gaskets, and re-torquing the arp studs helps band aid the problem, but it does not solve it. You will need to take preventive measures to get rid of the problem.
10-11-2009, 08:37 PM
#11
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Why so much timing??
Last edited by LASTLS1; 10-11-2009 at 08:45 PM.
10-11-2009, 09:09 PM
#12
can you push coolant out of the radiator cap under boost with a lifted head?
BUT the catch is, (if it is a lifted head) the head seems to seal back down, the car can do two back to back runs then it pushes about a gallon of coolant out on the second run, threw the radiator cap. it done it twice tonight
so we put about a gallon of water back in the radiator and run it two more times and it will do it again on th second pass. the car will shoot straight up to 230-260 on the therm.
the engine does not hydrolock nor does the exhaust smell like coolant being burnt.
can this be a simple radiator cap going bad or is the head moving just enough to push the coolant????
thanks for any input THE engine is a forged 370 317 heads arp head bolts (brand new the 4 passes in the thread) 9.9-10.0 compression 11.5 psi of boost alot of meth spinning at 6400
BUT the catch is, (if it is a lifted head) the head seems to seal back down, the car can do two back to back runs then it pushes about a gallon of coolant out on the second run, threw the radiator cap. it done it twice tonight
so we put about a gallon of water back in the radiator and run it two more times and it will do it again on th second pass. the car will shoot straight up to 230-260 on the therm.
the engine does not hydrolock nor does the exhaust smell like coolant being burnt.
can this be a simple radiator cap going bad or is the head moving just enough to push the coolant????
thanks for any input THE engine is a forged 370 317 heads arp head bolts (brand new the 4 passes in the thread) 9.9-10.0 compression 11.5 psi of boost alot of meth spinning at 6400
10-11-2009, 09:43 PM
#13
he was at 24 deg with out knock and he backed it down to 22 to be safe, we are reading the plugs there is no sign of det.
from the 22degs that was in the car today down to the 16 in the car now was like he turned off two cylinders
10-12-2009, 09:24 AM
#15
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his combo should be making close to the same power level as (trust) on here based off 1/4 mile time and ET 800hp on the tire
he was at 24 deg with out knock and he backed it down to 22 to be safe, we are reading the plugs there is no sign of det.
from the 22degs that was in the car today down to the 16 in the car now was like he turned off two cylinders
he was at 24 deg with out knock and he backed it down to 22 to be safe, we are reading the plugs there is no sign of det.
from the 22degs that was in the car today down to the 16 in the car now was like he turned off two cylinders
10-12-2009, 09:26 AM
#16
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his combo should be making close to the same power level as (trust) on here based off 1/4 mile time and ET 800hp on the tire
he was at 24 deg with out knock and he backed it down to 22 to be safe, we are reading the plugs there is no sign of det.
from the 22degs that was in the car today down to the 16 in the car now was like he turned off two cylinders
he was at 24 deg with out knock and he backed it down to 22 to be safe, we are reading the plugs there is no sign of det.
from the 22degs that was in the car today down to the 16 in the car now was like he turned off two cylinders
10-12-2009, 09:33 AM
#17
You should not be lifting the heads at 12psi, are they ARP BOLT or STUDS? If you have ARP studs, I'd say you're also lifting from detonation or at least timing. I run close to 20PSI on ARP studs and don't push coolant.
I know I may be getting over cautious, but I have seen a car pressurize the coolant system with boost then crack a weak spot in the block from lifting a head, it's not something you are going to keep wanting to to do.
You've got to think, you are adding 6 degrees of timing advance between it not lifting and it lifting, meaning you are letting the mixture ignite with a difference of 6 degrees (most likely the piston is already on its way back down) and letting the explosion push the piston back down properly. At 22* you're probably getting very close to the piston being at TDC or coming up to it before it ignites and causing a whole lot of pressure between the piston and the head = lifting. Just my .02.
EDIT: What kind of power/weight its the car at? I'd be surprised to make 7-800RWHP at 11.5psi.
I know I may be getting over cautious, but I have seen a car pressurize the coolant system with boost then crack a weak spot in the block from lifting a head, it's not something you are going to keep wanting to to do.
You've got to think, you are adding 6 degrees of timing advance between it not lifting and it lifting, meaning you are letting the mixture ignite with a difference of 6 degrees (most likely the piston is already on its way back down) and letting the explosion push the piston back down properly. At 22* you're probably getting very close to the piston being at TDC or coming up to it before it ignites and causing a whole lot of pressure between the piston and the head = lifting. Just my .02.
EDIT: What kind of power/weight its the car at? I'd be surprised to make 7-800RWHP at 11.5psi.
10-12-2009, 09:46 AM
#18
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The car is mine. It put down 572hp/490tq on a mustang dyno but ran a 10.7@132mph/1.7 60ft with a 3960lbs race weight.
With Arp bolts do you torque them once and call them good or do you cycle them by torqueing them then breaking them loose then retorque afew times?
With Arp bolts do you torque them once and call them good or do you cycle them by torqueing them then breaking them loose then retorque afew times?
Last edited by DevonsZ; 10-12-2009 at 09:51 AM.
10-12-2009, 10:07 AM
#19
10.7's at 3900 should be ~ 600-650RWHP on a dynojet, sounds about right. Check the torque on them, what did you get them torqued to originally? I would honestly back down the timing, that is pushing it. Also, are they studs (do they have a nut that goes on top of them) or bolts?
10-12-2009, 10:30 AM
#20
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10.7's at 3900 should be ~ 600-650RWHP on a dynojet, sounds about right. Check the torque on them, what did you get them torqued to originally? I would honestly back down the timing, that is pushing it. Also, are they studs (do they have a nut that goes on top of them) or bolts?