Maximum Effort LSX vs Warhawk
10-16-2009, 05:55 PM
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Maximum Effort LSX vs Warhawk Okay so while dreaming up my next new motor (Can't even finish the project I'm on before I want bigger and badder!) Im thinking Arbys... and then of course a wicked 427, So what's the most Imporant thing about a really badass FI motor?
Head Sealing #1 Both GM's LSX and World's Warhawk each provide thier own unique 6 bolt patterns so I'm seeing this as a Tie.
Cylinder Head selections.. #2 Well for max effort I'm thinking you don't want to cheap out in this department, If I chose an LSX I would go with some WCCH ALL PRO LSW Heads but they are Pricey at $4,500 a pop. However they boast flow numbers north of 400CFM per port on the intake. On the World Products Side the offering is of course limited to the LS7X head, but it Also boasts similar flow performance to the pricey WCCC ALL PRO Castings However Heads are available as cast for as little as $1300 a set requiring minimal machine work to be race ready.
Weight... The cast Iron LSX is no lightweight as it is GM's Heaviest duty LScasting to date Tipping the scales at a portly 225 LBS
Whereas World Products Warhawk comes in at a Bikini-ready 133lbs!
Durability... The LSX has come to be known as quite a bruiser in the LS community and is almost always the choice when it comes down to putting down insane numbers on the dyno, and at the track. I'm pretty Inexperienced in this realm however and cannot testify personally to the reliability of this block as a Max-Effort FI Turbo motor.
The Warhawk on the Other Hand, I have really not heard much of anything about and cannot testify to either.
Price.. The LSX wins hands down in this competition at $1,999.00... or Does it? I'm guessing from my little bit of experience by the time you have this baby out of the machine shop you're looking at a $1,000 bill to finish bores, align hone, deck etc, all the steps you would want to take with a factory produced block in order to ensure all surfaces are flat and true, and within tolerance. In addition I don't know if a main cap stud kit is included but if not you would want to add $200 there as well, coming out to approximately $3,200 Meanwhile the Warhawk block can be had race-ready to assemble (according to world I'm unsure to the truth behind this) for $5,000 complete with Billet caps and studs, and even installed freeze plugs! So while the LSX may save you a negligable amount of money in the scheme of $15,000 It comes right back to bight you when you go for those pretty aftermarket LS7 heads! Meanwhile the LS7X Warhawks will probably run you $1,000 less by the time you complete them than my alternate choice, the ALL PRO - LSW ported by WCCH
So as of now with what I could dig up I have to say that it is slightly more economical to go with the Warhawk as well as the fact that you save almost 100 lbs compared to an iron LSX block. So I give warhawk the Nod for my next motor!
Would anyone like to add any points of interest, corrections etc to help me out here?
Head Sealing #1 Both GM's LSX and World's Warhawk each provide thier own unique 6 bolt patterns so I'm seeing this as a Tie.
Cylinder Head selections.. #2 Well for max effort I'm thinking you don't want to cheap out in this department, If I chose an LSX I would go with some WCCH ALL PRO LSW Heads but they are Pricey at $4,500 a pop. However they boast flow numbers north of 400CFM per port on the intake. On the World Products Side the offering is of course limited to the LS7X head, but it Also boasts similar flow performance to the pricey WCCC ALL PRO Castings However Heads are available as cast for as little as $1300 a set requiring minimal machine work to be race ready.
Weight... The cast Iron LSX is no lightweight as it is GM's Heaviest duty LScasting to date Tipping the scales at a portly 225 LBS
Whereas World Products Warhawk comes in at a Bikini-ready 133lbs!
Durability... The LSX has come to be known as quite a bruiser in the LS community and is almost always the choice when it comes down to putting down insane numbers on the dyno, and at the track. I'm pretty Inexperienced in this realm however and cannot testify personally to the reliability of this block as a Max-Effort FI Turbo motor.
The Warhawk on the Other Hand, I have really not heard much of anything about and cannot testify to either.
Price.. The LSX wins hands down in this competition at $1,999.00... or Does it? I'm guessing from my little bit of experience by the time you have this baby out of the machine shop you're looking at a $1,000 bill to finish bores, align hone, deck etc, all the steps you would want to take with a factory produced block in order to ensure all surfaces are flat and true, and within tolerance. In addition I don't know if a main cap stud kit is included but if not you would want to add $200 there as well, coming out to approximately $3,200 Meanwhile the Warhawk block can be had race-ready to assemble (according to world I'm unsure to the truth behind this) for $5,000 complete with Billet caps and studs, and even installed freeze plugs! So while the LSX may save you a negligable amount of money in the scheme of $15,000 It comes right back to bight you when you go for those pretty aftermarket LS7 heads! Meanwhile the LS7X Warhawks will probably run you $1,000 less by the time you complete them than my alternate choice, the ALL PRO - LSW ported by WCCH
So as of now with what I could dig up I have to say that it is slightly more economical to go with the Warhawk as well as the fact that you save almost 100 lbs compared to an iron LSX block. So I give warhawk the Nod for my next motor!
Would anyone like to add any points of interest, corrections etc to help me out here?
10-16-2009, 10:19 PM
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i personally would go with the warhawk block, our cars are nose have as it is with an aluminum motor and if you throw in a lsx block that will just make it worse for weight transfer. also you can oring your ls2 or any other ls series motor that uses 4 bolt heads to keep those heads down under boost, just make sure the person that does it knows what they are doing.
10-17-2009, 02:58 PM
#3
the LSX is proven over and over again but I would think the warhawk would be quality considering the quality of the other world product blocks.
If you already have a LS2 like the above post states you could send it to ERL of VA speed and they can make that bullet proof.
If you already have a LS2 like the above post states you could send it to ERL of VA speed and they can make that bullet proof.
10-17-2009, 03:16 PM
#4
I've got an LSx in my combo and the weight is actually a benefit. If we ran an LS2 block we would have to run 100# of ballast up front to get the car down the track. I assume your talking about a heads up deal and at that level reliability is the name of the game.
Considering the fastest guys run big block chevys with twin turbos/superchargers they are 57-58% on the nose and still go 6s on drag radials.
Considering the fastest guys run big block chevys with twin turbos/superchargers they are 57-58% on the nose and still go 6s on drag radials.
10-17-2009, 03:34 PM
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Ah good point, I haven't thought about the perspective of NEEDING the weight to keep the front end down. I just don't see where 600 lbs or so comes out of a turbo f-body lol.
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10-17-2009, 04:43 PM
#8
Even for drag racing where everyone wants to cut weight, I would think you would rather have a more rugged block where you can make up for that weight with hp. Whats the rule of thumb.... .10 second off your ET for every 100 pounds. Big deal. You gain more performance by making more reliable power with the iron block.
Just my thoughts, but I'm no drag racing expert.
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10-17-2009, 05:29 PM
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Wow, thank you for all the helpful insight that was exactly what I was looking for... Now Im REALLY confused lol, Probably would go for the World piece myself.
10-17-2009, 08:30 PM
#11
when was your block purchased?
also, did you buy a prepped block or a bare block?
according to the guys over at world, you have to first torque down the heads with a springy head gasket before decking the block if you wanted to deck the block
also, with any engine block, you have to check EVERYTHING before final assembly
on the earlier LSX blocks there was the powercoat coming off and blocking the water passages, nothing like running hot water through them once to fix once and for all
then there was a batch with casting porosity, all you have to do is inspect and before you start to return it if there is a hole on it
and some of them have had warped or out of tolerance cam journals, which every engine builder should check anyways, and if its off just machine them or return, rinse, repeat
early warhawks also had dropped liners, casting porosity, and an indented freeze plug, all of which your engine builder should catch, but would have worked out anyways (except for the dropped liners, which is something that you have to specifically look for and requires some additional procedure)
_
also, did you buy a prepped block or a bare block?
according to the guys over at world, you have to first torque down the heads with a springy head gasket before decking the block if you wanted to deck the block
also, with any engine block, you have to check EVERYTHING before final assembly
on the earlier LSX blocks there was the powercoat coming off and blocking the water passages, nothing like running hot water through them once to fix once and for all
then there was a batch with casting porosity, all you have to do is inspect and before you start to return it if there is a hole on it
and some of them have had warped or out of tolerance cam journals, which every engine builder should check anyways, and if its off just machine them or return, rinse, repeat
early warhawks also had dropped liners, casting porosity, and an indented freeze plug, all of which your engine builder should catch, but would have worked out anyways (except for the dropped liners, which is something that you have to specifically look for and requires some additional procedure)
_
I mean what if a car ran a 7 second 1/4 mile and then you put an 80 pound kid in the passenger seat....whats gonna really be the difference in ET????
.
10-17-2009, 08:32 PM
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i know the first couple of warhawk blocks had problems with sleeves, but i am sure they took care of that now.
10-17-2009, 09:42 PM
#13
I mean, its still aluminum vs iron. How can aluminum win any kind of strength contest?
The LQ9/LQ4....do they have 6 bolts per cylinder? If not, they can't even make the big power. Like boost...right?
.
10-17-2009, 11:59 PM
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I say the Warhawk all the way. One example is Paul Major who has one of the fastest drag radial cars in the country and he runs a Warhawk block with big twins. And from what I've read/heard is that it makes close to if not more than 2000hp.
10-18-2009, 12:45 AM
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How can an aluminum LSx block be anywhere near as strong as the iron LSX block???? Even the Warhawk or the billet aluminum block.
I mean, its still aluminum vs iron. How can aluminum win any kind of strength contest?
The LQ9/LQ4....do they have 6 bolts per cylinder? If not, they can't even make the big power. Like boost...right?
.
I mean, its still aluminum vs iron. How can aluminum win any kind of strength contest?
The LQ9/LQ4....do they have 6 bolts per cylinder? If not, they can't even make the big power. Like boost...right?
.
10-18-2009, 01:27 AM
#16
But aluminum is nowhere near as strong as iron, thats all I'm saying. I mean, a 1,400 RWHP iron block with 6 bolts per cyl won't be anywhere near its max. Aluminum is a ticking time bomb.
Thread title is "MAX effort LSX or Warhawk". Iron LSX will be stronger by far, without question.
.
10-18-2009, 04:26 AM
#17
No question with a great build and real good tuning that a handful of people will get high HP results from aluminum blocked engines and 4 bolts per cyl........its certainly not the norm though.
But aluminum is nowhere near as strong as iron, thats all I'm saying. I mean, a 1,400 RWHP iron block with 6 bolts per cyl won't be anywhere near its max. Aluminum is a ticking time bomb.
Thread title is "MAX effort LSX or Warhawk". Iron LSX will be stronger by far, without question.
.
But aluminum is nowhere near as strong as iron, thats all I'm saying. I mean, a 1,400 RWHP iron block with 6 bolts per cyl won't be anywhere near its max. Aluminum is a ticking time bomb.
Thread title is "MAX effort LSX or Warhawk". Iron LSX will be stronger by far, without question.
.
10-18-2009, 01:36 PM
#18
Just because its iron doesn't make it strong. In the ford world, a stock 302 block will crack between 450-500rwhp. It's iron. Whereas the Teksid aluminum blocks found in the 96-98 Cobras has lived through over 2500hp. Not really a direct comparison to LS based blocks, however, still an iron to aluminum comparison.
It's looking so far like the LSX iron block is a pretty amazing piece. I doubt any expert would say that there's an LSx style aluminum block out there that is anywhere close to as strong as the LSX iron block.
.
10-18-2009, 01:41 PM
#19
Pauls Corvette and My mustang are currently the 2 fastest LSx powered radial cars. He runs the warhawk with twin 88-91s I run an LSx with a single 106, our 1/8 mile MPH is basically the same 157-160. We've been 162. I can tell you this, with a couple modifications the LSx can be a reliable weapon.
If I could run a warhawk or an Aluminum LSx, I'd still run the iron LSx because we still need to add ballast to keep the nose down with the radials. With the modifications we've done to the LSx after 30 passes it looks almost new inside. We've got one issue to deal with but we're confident with the last round of changes we have it licked.
If I could run a warhawk or an Aluminum LSx, I'd still run the iron LSx because we still need to add ballast to keep the nose down with the radials. With the modifications we've done to the LSx after 30 passes it looks almost new inside. We've got one issue to deal with but we're confident with the last round of changes we have it licked.
10-18-2009, 07:00 PM
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How can an aluminum LSx block be anywhere near as strong as the iron LSX block???? Even the Warhawk or the billet aluminum block.
I mean, its still aluminum vs iron. How can aluminum win any kind of strength contest?
The LQ9/LQ4....do they have 6 bolts per cylinder? If not, they can't even make the big power. Like boost...right?
.
I mean, its still aluminum vs iron. How can aluminum win any kind of strength contest?
The LQ9/LQ4....do they have 6 bolts per cylinder? If not, they can't even make the big power. Like boost...right?
.
first of all it is not just aluminum, it is an alloy and all aluminum alloy blocks have iron sleeves for except for some rare motors that used a special coating.
and yes iron is a stronger materiel the the aluminum alloy used in the ls blocks. but why use the heavier materiel when you can use the lighter materiel and make the same amount of power and save quite a bit of weight without braking anything ?
and what the hell do you mean you can not make big power of 4 bolt heads ? 800whp is quite allot on a block that was designed to have half the amount of that. you want even more ? double o ring the 4 bolt ls2 block and you can make over 1500hp. yes o rining a block is not easy, but it is also not easy to build a 1600hp motor lsx motor without the proper knowledge.
please next time you try to give somebody advice have some actual fact's to back up your claims. as you can see there are a quite a few people that pointed out a guy that has a 1600hp aluminum motor and corvette major has a 2500hp warhawk motor if i am not mistaken