Passenger side trailing arm & fenders rubbing with new wheels & tires
06-10-2011, 01:50 AM
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Passenger side trailing arm & fenders rubbing with new wheels & tires Hey guys. I got these Linea Corse Venetto's back in December and finally got the tires I was waiting for, and hence finally installed the wheels. dumA few weeks ago I also installed a set of H&R springs and MM spacers for the rear.dum
I've just taken the car for it's first ride with it's new "shoes" and noticed that there's some wheel-on-metal rubbing sounds when I'm turning left. When I put the wheels on I noticed the passenger side trailing arm was really close to the wheel, significantly more so than the driver's side, so I'm assuming that's where the sound is coming from. dum
What are my options with this? Hammer a flat spot in the trailing arm? Or what about an alignment? I haven't had one done since I lowered the car, so I'm going to get that done ASAP.... maybe that'll help the issue? Any other ideas?
Here are a couple pics of the fender gap, or lack thereof in the rear.
Front:
Rear:
I've just taken the car for it's first ride with it's new "shoes" and noticed that there's some wheel-on-metal rubbing sounds when I'm turning left. When I put the wheels on I noticed the passenger side trailing arm was really close to the wheel, significantly more so than the driver's side, so I'm assuming that's where the sound is coming from. dum
What are my options with this? Hammer a flat spot in the trailing arm? Or what about an alignment? I haven't had one done since I lowered the car, so I'm going to get that done ASAP.... maybe that'll help the issue? Any other ideas?
Here are a couple pics of the fender gap, or lack thereof in the rear.
Front:
Rear:
06-10-2011, 02:20 AM
#2
Roll the fenders, and unfortunately there isnt much to do about the trailing arms. A lot of people have problems with that wide of a wheel. One company made aftermarket trailing arms which I believe i saw for sale on here recently. They are made by MAP and allow for a wider wheel. I have heard of people having trouble with them as well though.
BTW wheels look great but you just confirmed there are too many problems with H&Rs and a wheel that size.
BTW wheels look great but you just confirmed there are too many problems with H&Rs and a wheel that size.
06-10-2011, 03:12 AM
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It's funny 'cause wheel dude confirmed with me, more than once, that these wheels would fit this application (including lowering springs).
Hopefully someone can come up with a suggestion or 2 to make the trailing arm thing work out. Again, I'm also wondering (hoping) if the problem will get fixed with an alignment. I'll definitely mention it to the guy who does it to see if he can make it work somehow.
Hopefully someone can come up with a suggestion or 2 to make the trailing arm thing work out. Again, I'm also wondering (hoping) if the problem will get fixed with an alignment. I'll definitely mention it to the guy who does it to see if he can make it work somehow.
06-10-2011, 04:49 AM
#4
It's funny 'cause wheel dude confirmed with me, more than once, that these wheels would fit this application (including lowering springs).
Hopefully someone can come up with a suggestion or 2 to make the trailing arm thing work out. Again, I'm also wondering (hoping) if the problem will get fixed with an alignment. I'll definitely mention it to the guy who does it to see if he can make it work somehow.
Hopefully someone can come up with a suggestion or 2 to make the trailing arm thing work out. Again, I'm also wondering (hoping) if the problem will get fixed with an alignment. I'll definitely mention it to the guy who does it to see if he can make it work somehow.
06-10-2011, 07:58 AM
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Here's the map trailing arms...I have no experience with them.
http://www.maperformance.com/map-tra...-ctsv-tak.html
http://www.maperformance.com/map-tra...-ctsv-tak.html
06-10-2011, 12:11 PM
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I have the MAP trailing arms, which I installed partly because I also had a light rub (in my case on the passenger side).
An alignment can't hurt, but it will do little to nothing to change the geometry of the wheel and the trailing arm.
The poly bushings that Turn in Concepts is about to produce might help. It sounds like your rub is like mine was - it came and went depending on the load on the suspension. The poly trailing arm bushing in the rear knuckle (I have the test set installed on my car) takes away a lot of play in that joint, which might mean that the trailing arm wouldn't flex into contact with the wheel as the suspension is loaded or unloaded.
An alignment can't hurt, but it will do little to nothing to change the geometry of the wheel and the trailing arm.
The poly bushings that Turn in Concepts is about to produce might help. It sounds like your rub is like mine was - it came and went depending on the load on the suspension. The poly trailing arm bushing in the rear knuckle (I have the test set installed on my car) takes away a lot of play in that joint, which might mean that the trailing arm wouldn't flex into contact with the wheel as the suspension is loaded or unloaded.
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06-10-2011, 12:43 PM
#8
They ar solid steel, only way to notch them would be to grind them down and im not sure how much it would affect the strength. I doubt your alignment will do anything except maybe get you a couple MMs of space but again it also might bite you in the *** and push it the wrong way.
06-10-2011, 01:32 PM
#9
I'm screwed with my situation.
I'm on CCW's on hankook evo's. 275/35/19, 245/40/19.
What I did was put small spacers so that they would clear the trailing arm, because on hard corners they would rub them.
The only problem is that when I put the GC kit on and it lowered my car, if I get an alignment or I even mess with the camber in the back, it is now going to rub on my fender. I just dont know how much rolling your fender does either.
So It's either ruin a tire instantly from the inner fender, or get 85% out of you tire because of slightly uneven wear
I'm on CCW's on hankook evo's. 275/35/19, 245/40/19.
What I did was put small spacers so that they would clear the trailing arm, because on hard corners they would rub them.
The only problem is that when I put the GC kit on and it lowered my car, if I get an alignment or I even mess with the camber in the back, it is now going to rub on my fender. I just dont know how much rolling your fender does either.
So It's either ruin a tire instantly from the inner fender, or get 85% out of you tire because of slightly uneven wear
06-10-2011, 01:46 PM
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has me scared about the 855Cs I have on order now from wheel dude... Still awaiting on delivery.
So roll fenders/notch the trailing arm or get the bushings?
Someone have alink to these bushings?
So roll fenders/notch the trailing arm or get the bushings?
Someone have alink to these bushings?
06-10-2011, 01:59 PM
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would the BMR arms do the same thing? Plan on getting some headers frmo Maryland speed soon and could tack on the arms as well if they will help.
http://marylandspeed.com/bmr-trailin...18-p-1853.html
http://marylandspeed.com/bmr-trailin...18-p-1853.html
06-10-2011, 05:19 PM
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All of you with rubbing problems need to get the rear fenders rolled (and pulled out as much as they possibly can) by a professional body shop. That can give you as much as 1/8"-3/16" of extra clearance...I know because I've had it done. What they do is pull the sheet metal a bit, but most importantly they take the small metal lip that sticks back toward the tire and roll it completely back up and into itself so it basically is laying back flat against the sheet metal of the car.
Also, the stock trailing arms should allow you to run a 10" wide wheel no problem, but if you still need more room because of the play in the trailing arm bushings and in the toe rods, then you can add a very small spacer to move the wheel farther outside and then take advantage of the rolled fenders.
Also, about 2° of negative camber will give you a nice bit of room at the top of the tire (where the fender rubbing would occur).
I have a lot of experience with running different tire sizes in the rear. I've run 295/30/19, 285/35/19, and my race rubber is 275/35/18. Most of my luck in being able to run the larger-than-stock tires in the rear is because of CCW's good offsets. I don't know how the Veneto's offsets compare.
Here's a couple of pix to show how my car sits with the current tire setup. 245/40/19 front and 285/35/19 rear, and lowered about 1.5" all around.
Also, the stock trailing arms should allow you to run a 10" wide wheel no problem, but if you still need more room because of the play in the trailing arm bushings and in the toe rods, then you can add a very small spacer to move the wheel farther outside and then take advantage of the rolled fenders.
Also, about 2° of negative camber will give you a nice bit of room at the top of the tire (where the fender rubbing would occur).
I have a lot of experience with running different tire sizes in the rear. I've run 295/30/19, 285/35/19, and my race rubber is 275/35/18. Most of my luck in being able to run the larger-than-stock tires in the rear is because of CCW's good offsets. I don't know how the Veneto's offsets compare.
Here's a couple of pix to show how my car sits with the current tire setup. 245/40/19 front and 285/35/19 rear, and lowered about 1.5" all around.
Last edited by tweeter81; 06-10-2011 at 05:33 PM.
06-10-2011, 09:37 PM
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Thanks for the advice so far fellas.
I dont know if I'm comfortable with "notching" the trailing arm, but I may try to see if I can hammer a small dent in it to give me a little more clearance. If it's solid steel, it's not likely that's going to work.
Rolling the fenders for added clearance is a good idea and it's on my list of possibilities for sure. I'm a little afraid of the cost to have that done though. Frankly, I'm pissed at wheeldude for not advising me that this may need to be done. I confirmed with them more than once before I bought the wheels that they'd fit without any other modifications, now here I am being forced to spend more money on making them fit. Not impressed.
I think, rather than mess with the MAP trailing arms and bushings which seem to get really mixed reviews in our community, I'll probably look real close into Tweeter81's method of rolling fenders and utilizing a small 1/8th spacer or something. That's unless anyone else has any other suggestions.
I forgot to mention... Are our rear fender lips already partially "rolled" from the factory? I never really noticed, and now that I'm having these issues I've noticed that my rear fender lips aren't straight like most cars. They're partially rolled up from about the 10 o'clock to the 2 o'clock position on the driver's side and the 2 o'clock to the 10 o'clock position on the passenger side. Seem right?
How much should a fender rolling cost?
Also, the offset on my LC Venetos is +40 in the front (8.5" wide) and +47 in the rear (10" wide).
Excuse the filthy car (dirty rain here I guess), but here are a few more pics.
I dont know if I'm comfortable with "notching" the trailing arm, but I may try to see if I can hammer a small dent in it to give me a little more clearance. If it's solid steel, it's not likely that's going to work.
Rolling the fenders for added clearance is a good idea and it's on my list of possibilities for sure. I'm a little afraid of the cost to have that done though. Frankly, I'm pissed at wheeldude for not advising me that this may need to be done. I confirmed with them more than once before I bought the wheels that they'd fit without any other modifications, now here I am being forced to spend more money on making them fit. Not impressed.
I think, rather than mess with the MAP trailing arms and bushings which seem to get really mixed reviews in our community, I'll probably look real close into Tweeter81's method of rolling fenders and utilizing a small 1/8th spacer or something. That's unless anyone else has any other suggestions.
I forgot to mention... Are our rear fender lips already partially "rolled" from the factory? I never really noticed, and now that I'm having these issues I've noticed that my rear fender lips aren't straight like most cars. They're partially rolled up from about the 10 o'clock to the 2 o'clock position on the driver's side and the 2 o'clock to the 10 o'clock position on the passenger side. Seem right?
How much should a fender rolling cost?
Also, the offset on my LC Venetos is +40 in the front (8.5" wide) and +47 in the rear (10" wide).
Excuse the filthy car (dirty rain here I guess), but here are a few more pics.
Last edited by wes8398; 06-11-2011 at 03:31 AM.
06-10-2011, 09:53 PM
#16
to reply to a few quotes above...
the stock bars are not solid, therefore it would be possible to notch/dent them. if you wanted to get real fancy, you could cut s section out then weld on reinforcements.
the BMR bars would not buy you anything, any may actually be worse then stock as far as clearance is involved because the OD of the tube used is slightly larger.
the stock bars are not solid, therefore it would be possible to notch/dent them. if you wanted to get real fancy, you could cut s section out then weld on reinforcements.
the BMR bars would not buy you anything, any may actually be worse then stock as far as clearance is involved because the OD of the tube used is slightly larger.
06-11-2011, 11:24 AM
#17
i had them use this tool to get the maximum roll and pull without messing with the lines of the fender:
here you can see the rear tucking that 285 on a 10.5 pretty flush, no rubbing (even with passengers):
here you can see the rear tucking that 285 on a 10.5 pretty flush, no rubbing (even with passengers):
06-11-2011, 05:46 PM
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Thanks for the advice so far fellas.
I dont know if I'm comfortable with "notching" the trailing arm, but I may try to see if I can hammer a small dent in it to give me a little more clearance. If it's solid steel, it's not likely that's going to work.
I personally wouldn't do that, but that's just me...
Rolling the fenders for added clearance is a good idea and it's on my list of possibilities for sure. I'm a little afraid of the cost to have that done though. Frankly, I'm pissed at wheeldude for not advising me that this may need to be done. I confirmed with them more than once before I bought the wheels that they'd fit without any other modifications, now here I am being forced to spend more money on making them fit. Not impressed.
I think, rather than mess with the MAP trailing arms and bushings which seem to get really mixed reviews in our community, I'll probably look real close into Tweeter81's method of rolling fenders and utilizing a small 1/8th spacer or something. That's unless anyone else has any other suggestions.
The shops that I had roll my fenders only charged like $20-$40 per corner. It is very cheap...a no brainer if you need the extra clearance.
I forgot to mention... Are our rear fender lips already partially "rolled" from the factory? I never really noticed, and now that I'm having these issues I've noticed that my rear fender lips aren't straight like most cars. They're partially rolled up from about the 10 o'clock to the 2 o'clock position on the driver's side and the 2 o'clock to the 10 o'clock position on the passenger side. Seem right?
My 2004 had the fenders partially rolled, like you have described above, but it wasn't enough. You need to go the rest of the way and roll them so they make a "U" shape basically.
How much should a fender rolling cost?
See above.
I dont know if I'm comfortable with "notching" the trailing arm, but I may try to see if I can hammer a small dent in it to give me a little more clearance. If it's solid steel, it's not likely that's going to work.
I personally wouldn't do that, but that's just me...
Rolling the fenders for added clearance is a good idea and it's on my list of possibilities for sure. I'm a little afraid of the cost to have that done though. Frankly, I'm pissed at wheeldude for not advising me that this may need to be done. I confirmed with them more than once before I bought the wheels that they'd fit without any other modifications, now here I am being forced to spend more money on making them fit. Not impressed.
I think, rather than mess with the MAP trailing arms and bushings which seem to get really mixed reviews in our community, I'll probably look real close into Tweeter81's method of rolling fenders and utilizing a small 1/8th spacer or something. That's unless anyone else has any other suggestions.
The shops that I had roll my fenders only charged like $20-$40 per corner. It is very cheap...a no brainer if you need the extra clearance.
I forgot to mention... Are our rear fender lips already partially "rolled" from the factory? I never really noticed, and now that I'm having these issues I've noticed that my rear fender lips aren't straight like most cars. They're partially rolled up from about the 10 o'clock to the 2 o'clock position on the driver's side and the 2 o'clock to the 10 o'clock position on the passenger side. Seem right?
My 2004 had the fenders partially rolled, like you have described above, but it wasn't enough. You need to go the rest of the way and roll them so they make a "U" shape basically.
How much should a fender rolling cost?
See above.
06-11-2011, 05:49 PM
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I'm going to take a few more pix this week of the car with the street tires, and then another set with my race wheels/tires in preparation for the Spectre 341 Challenge. I'll make sure to get some nice *** shots of the car for you, lol.