help with a tune
12-08-2011, 06:11 PM
#1
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help with a tune got my car tuned by a local shop that tunes ls1 cars on long island and the car just doesnt seem right, it runs rich at idle and has a stumble in 1st and 2nd gear when warm...can anyone check it out and see what the hell is goin on.....thanks
12-08-2011, 06:25 PM
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12-09-2011, 06:45 PM
#6
I have about as much faith as you do in them after looking at their tune. How well does that thing idle at 975? Sheesh. Cold starts must be a bitch.
Is your service engine soon light on? Have you read any of the codes?
Is your service engine soon light on? Have you read any of the codes?
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12-11-2011, 09:37 PM
#8
TECH Fanatic
Sorry man, you will have to start over which means going to another tuner or getting a wideband and trying to tune it yourself. If you already have HP Tuners you can try hitting up one of the vendors here and ask if they can do a mail order type tune with some feedback (i.e. flash a new tune, then you drive and log and send the log for adjustments to the tune)...if anyone does that anymore. Takes a while to get it right that way, but if it saves you from having to drive a few hundred miles then it may be worth it.
I wouldn't drive the car until you get something closer to a workable tune.
I wouldn't drive the car until you get something closer to a workable tune.
12-12-2011, 07:22 AM
#9
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PE table is raped. What injectors are these? Green tops? If they are green tops then the injector data is wrong.
@gectek - what's wrong with an idle of 975 for that cam?
@gectek - what's wrong with an idle of 975 for that cam?
12-12-2011, 10:06 AM
#11
Would you be so kind as to mention the name of the shop?
I think its bs letting people blindly follow your lead to spending $ with someone who does this type of work, currently.
Wouldn't it be nice if they fixed the issue. That way you or the shop could come back stating HOW they took care of it.
That's a win for the CUSTOMER and the SHOP!
Your file vs. a stock file: 50 out of 593 available options changed.
BINGO! As mentioned above injector data was not changed correctly. (Tuner: Visit, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SME-DVD-1/)
Air pump disabled
Target idle raised avg. 175rpm
Adaptive Idle turned off @ 100* vs. stock 176*
More air added at idle to correct for cam
More air added at startup to correct for cam
Throttle cracker desensitized to not react with as much as air as stock for cam
MAF was touched (unknown if correct without a Hp Tuners VCM scanner view)
VE was touched (alot of fuel pulled out 400rpm-4000rpm) (again need scan view)
+ many other necessary updates to timing, rpm raised, ect.
Whomever did your tune actually did a fine job except for starting with the wrong injector values which in turn affects the ENTIRE tune from then on. Without the right injector data they are baking in junk data to try to hit their AFR target. Get your tuner to spend $250 on the mentioned disk. It gives the exact data for your injectors + a video on how to use it. The shop will then have to retune your ride.
I think its bs letting people blindly follow your lead to spending $ with someone who does this type of work, currently.
Wouldn't it be nice if they fixed the issue. That way you or the shop could come back stating HOW they took care of it.
That's a win for the CUSTOMER and the SHOP!
Your file vs. a stock file: 50 out of 593 available options changed.
BINGO! As mentioned above injector data was not changed correctly. (Tuner: Visit, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SME-DVD-1/)
Air pump disabled
Target idle raised avg. 175rpm
Adaptive Idle turned off @ 100* vs. stock 176*
More air added at idle to correct for cam
More air added at startup to correct for cam
Throttle cracker desensitized to not react with as much as air as stock for cam
MAF was touched (unknown if correct without a Hp Tuners VCM scanner view)
VE was touched (alot of fuel pulled out 400rpm-4000rpm) (again need scan view)
+ many other necessary updates to timing, rpm raised, ect.
Whomever did your tune actually did a fine job except for starting with the wrong injector values which in turn affects the ENTIRE tune from then on. Without the right injector data they are baking in junk data to try to hit their AFR target. Get your tuner to spend $250 on the mentioned disk. It gives the exact data for your injectors + a video on how to use it. The shop will then have to retune your ride.
12-12-2011, 10:31 AM
#12
As far as the clutch issue, I have seen the spec clutches be hit and miss, and in your case a stage 4 has a pretty stiff plate and a solid hub instead of sprung. So it will still be a job for low speed driving, but that cam is rather large so it will prob want to surge a tad anyway. Having a sprung hub clutch would have helped just a tad, but what can you do now?
If someone that claims to know tuning has to buy a disk to learn the fundamentals, then I would prob go to a different shop until he learned what was right and what was wrong IMO.
12-12-2011, 10:19 PM
#13
How do you presume people learn to tune cars? It appears some are gaining experience F*in up customers vehicles due to their ignorance. The problem is MANY pro-tuners are NOT using the data provided on that disk to their advantage. When tuning step #1 is setting up correct fuel data...i.e.INJECTOR DATA. The Greg Banish DVD provides exact data for specific injectors he tested with line for line instructions on where to input in Hp Tuners/EFI Live. Its ONLY covered on that disk. Real pro-tuners learn in a classrooms, online coarses, books, cd's, dvd's, online write ups, personal cars, ect. They don't get it by mullit osmosis...
12-12-2011, 10:46 PM
#14
You learn to tune cars by NOT blowing them up unless they are your own. If you claim to be a professional tuner, then you have either read all the literature and have a working knowledge of it, or you have taught yourself and absorb all the knowledge that is out there.
And what you are saying is real tuners learn like all the other tuners that half *** things do as well.
I have attended a few classes and seen the parting of the waters when it comes to who should and should not be in them.
NOT JUST that Dvd explains what to do, but it is a good starting point. Honestly you push that DVD so much your arms should be tired. Or fingers perhaps. I know it worked for you, but watching a dvd and understanding what goes on inside the engine and as a result of what you do can be different things for different people. It is probably a good tool, but not the end all be all of how to tune and get it right on every setup 100% of the time.
If learning things off a DVD were so easy and could be put to use just as quick when you are shown the entire process, then I am sure by now, as many times as I have watched Mission Impossible, that I could break into the CIA headquarters.
I am trying to help him out by telling him to go to someone else. Not watch the DVD with the guy that is messing up his car and screwed him over once. Ignorance is no excuse. He is asking for help on the board here. So we can help him here and he doesnt have to spend the money on the banish dvd and you can teach him all of banish's moves. If I were in the same position, when I asked for help, I would hope someone would help me, not shrug me off with a link to a place to buy a tuning self help dvd.
That old addage of teaching a man to fish only works when you are fishing. The tuning world has at the least 4 or 5 different approaches to achieve the same goals. So if you try to teach them the wrong way, then their money is wasted.
And what you are saying is real tuners learn like all the other tuners that half *** things do as well.
I have attended a few classes and seen the parting of the waters when it comes to who should and should not be in them.
NOT JUST that Dvd explains what to do, but it is a good starting point. Honestly you push that DVD so much your arms should be tired. Or fingers perhaps. I know it worked for you, but watching a dvd and understanding what goes on inside the engine and as a result of what you do can be different things for different people. It is probably a good tool, but not the end all be all of how to tune and get it right on every setup 100% of the time.
If learning things off a DVD were so easy and could be put to use just as quick when you are shown the entire process, then I am sure by now, as many times as I have watched Mission Impossible, that I could break into the CIA headquarters.
I am trying to help him out by telling him to go to someone else. Not watch the DVD with the guy that is messing up his car and screwed him over once. Ignorance is no excuse. He is asking for help on the board here. So we can help him here and he doesnt have to spend the money on the banish dvd and you can teach him all of banish's moves. If I were in the same position, when I asked for help, I would hope someone would help me, not shrug me off with a link to a place to buy a tuning self help dvd.
That old addage of teaching a man to fish only works when you are fishing. The tuning world has at the least 4 or 5 different approaches to achieve the same goals. So if you try to teach them the wrong way, then their money is wasted.
12-13-2011, 01:30 PM
#16
Some people actually like it to idle higher, i have no idea why, but it becomes a problem when you are running a manual trans car and are trying to shift in a parking lot, but the good thing is you dont have to worry about pedalling it out of the clutch since it wants to take off anyway.