LS4 Performance - New tubular control arms from Competition fab

Hey guys,

So if anyone noticed that ZZP took down their tubular control arms from their site fear not! I have been working closely with Competition Fabrications out of Maple Park Illinois on creating a new tubular arm using a superior design. The goal is to beat ZZP prices ($500) while using better materials, thicker tubing walls, and an alternative to the problematic heim joint. I am aware of 3 guys who had their ZZP arms break on them and Dave at Comp Fab and I are determined to find a design that will not fail under any circumstances.

I loved my ZZP arms, they dramatically changed the car for the better. The benefit of using beefier tubular control arms vs stock is obvious. The arm itself will flex much less under heavy loads. This leads to the near elimination of torque steer as well as understeer. This will also bring more of a solid feel to the car under any conditions and add steering responsivness, the tires will feel more planted into the pavment.

So what I need from you guys is a preliminary count of who is possibly interested. We're still about 2 weeks out from a prototype for my car, and after a week of testing I will be ready to start taking orders. If you are on any other W-Body related forums I would really appreciate if you guys could post a link to this thread on there and then post a link of the new thread on here so I can see what the interest is. The more intrest up front, the cheapier the arms get! This deal can only add more options to the suspension's of our cars! I also want to look into making an arm to be specifically designed for coilovers in the near future using the small profit from these arms as the R&D fund. But lets get this off the ground!

Please feel free to PM me if your not comfortable posting your response on the thread.

-Brad

I am interested but it'd be a while before I ordered as it's not a priority.

I am interested but it'd be a while before I ordered as it's not a priority.

Ok great! understood. Spread the word!

I would be interested as well, but I am in the same boat. Just purchased a TEP trans so the wife is keeping an eye on my mod spending :)

Definitely worthwhile, thanks for going through the trouble!

Very interested.. but in the same boat as everyone else. I wish I had this option back in November -- I just replaced mine with new (but still stock) arms.

But I'm otherwise very interested.

Wes

I'm in when are we doing deposits?

YES is all I have to say keep us posted and what price range were you looking at ?

YES is all I have to say keep us posted and what price range were you looking at ?

I'm in when are we doing deposits?

ALL OF YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME!!!!!!!!! I was hoping to see support like this and i'm so relieved to see it!

so as far as price, the money to make the jig and first pair of arms will be out of my pocket unless anyone else wants to go in on this whole deal with me. After that I plan on beating ZZP's price of $500 even considering development costs. As long as I break even I will be happy, all I want is a better driving car. Profit isn't my goal here, the only profit I'd like to see is enough to cover the R&D of a version of the tubular arms specifically for coil overs that will happen in the future. I'm talking real coilovers, not the threaded sleeve welded to a strut.

As stated above, we are in the early stages. Serious research began last week and it isn't rocket science so progress has already been made. We simply need to figure out how to continue to use the factory arm mounts while using somthing other than a heim joint that will have more give and absorb the shock from hard bumps. As well as come up with a shape for the arm that will add rigidity, we are thinking more along the lines of a true A Arm shape, or at least as close as we can get without adding another control arm mount to the sub frame. This was the downfall of the ZZP arms. These new arms will be made of much thicker chrome moly steel with a much thicker wall. If we find it necessary, or just as good insurance the arms will be gusseted as well. I want nothing short of a top quality and designed product, I will not stand for anything less anymore for my car! At my day job, the motto I created for the company is "do it right the first time", very original I kno :), but I intend to do the same here.

A rough time estimate is 4-6 weeks until production can begin. So I would start taking deposits a week ahead of time. I'm not going to promise a product until I'm sure I can deliver it as represented. I want the prototype installed on my car so I can confirm the performance 1st hand.

If anyone has any input, suggestions, or ideas I'd really like to hear them!

Add me to your list.

I have some of the zzp arms, but I'm too scared to put them on.

I have some of the zzp arms, but I'm too scared to put them on.

If I were you, i'd do 1 of 3 things. 1st call ZZP and tell them you feel unsafe based on proof that the arms have failed in the past, if they say go F yourself you can scrap them. Or you can get in contact with a guy like Dave at Comp Fab and have them gusset up the ZZP arms so its not a total loss.

YYYEEEEEPPPPPPP!!!!!!! put me on the list

im not personally interested in this, but if you would like ill post a link of this thread on the other forum im on with monte carlo owners.

The theory is they make the torque steer significantly less. Nobody wants to take the liability risk.

Google Ron Vogal. I think he made made some for a gtp a few (~10) years ago.

The theory is they make the torque steer significantly less. Nobody wants to take the liability risk.

Google Ron Vogal. I think he made made some for a gtp a few (~10) years ago.

I can confirm that they significantly reduce torque steer, if the car was purely a race car, that never went over big potholes or even an average bump, I think the zzp arms would be fine. But it's still dangerous since so many have broke.

There's a lot of Ron Vogals showing up on google, I tried adding suspension and control arm to the search and came up with nada.


im not personally interested in this, but if you would like ill post a link of this thread on the other forum im on with monte carlo owners.

That would be great if you would! Everyone else please feel free to do the same. Just copy and paste this:

PLEASE repost this link and sentence in other w body forums, and when you do, post a link to the new thread you just made on THIS thread. The link to the main thread on LS1 tech is below, i will check every thread that has a link. Thanks, V8ImpSS

http://ls1tech.com/forums/ls4-performance/1544874-new-tubular-control-arms-competition-fab.html

.ttt.

Any word on deposit yet?

Any word on deposit yet?

No, not quite yet. Dave at Competition Fabrications is a busy guy, building dragsters, race cars and all. I'm hoping to be able to get a final design by week's end, but not for sure. I'm as eager as all you guys, my car is currently decomissioned until I get some new arms. If you are subscribed to this thread, you will be the 1st to know of any progress that has been made. Both dave and I are currently finishing up some R&D, I've talked to at least 5 other suspension guru's to get their input, but theirs a few other bases I wish to touch before production.

V8impSS: I am currently building a set of lower control arms now for my Monte. I will be using 4340 tubing with .093 wall if I can get it, if not .080 will suffice due to the strength in the 4340. I will use the stock arm as a pattern with the addition of gussets to reinforce the basic triangle design. A poly bushing rearward, a Moog bolt on ball joint and to solve the heim joint issue I am using a Jony Joint fitted to the cradle that will adjust in a welded on internally threaded tube. All welded up and powder coated. I originally ordered the ZZP control arms but glad they never delivered, now that I hear all about the breakage. I hope this helps you.

Yes it does, we're planning on involving the jonny joint. Ive talked to a few people at currie as in john curry, inventer of the johnny joint. Thank you for posting your information!

I duno if this is even possible but I thought it would be nice to have a-arms that allowed the strut to be mounted lower in the strut bracket without the bottom of the strut hitting the a-arm so it would allow for a drop but maintain the factory ride.. jus a thought

I duno if this is even possible but I thought it would be nice to have a-arms that allowed the strut to be mounted lower in the strut bracket without the bottom of the strut hitting the a-arm so it would allow for a drop but maintain the factory ride.. jus a thought

Thats a good thought. It would not be easy to design, but I'm sure it's possible, it may change some suspension geometry though. I will ask Dave what he thinks. I'd assume that most people doing tubular arms would wither be doing a drop at the same time or are already lowered anyways, so i can see demand for that.

is the $500 for lower and upper a arms and are they ajustable?

is the $500 for lower and upper a arms and are they ajustable?

The price has not yet been officially set, our cars do not require an upper arm as they use McPherson struts. There will be adjustability for alignment purposes.

It would. Be nice to have control arms made with longer ball joint studs to improve geometry on the lowered wbodies

It would. Be nice to have control arms made with longer ball joint studs to improve geometry on the lowered wbodies

I'm looking into something better, an arm that has the drop built into it to retain factory suspension geometry and ride quality. This is not a for sure thing yet though, I'd like to get the stock style arms done first.

Bump.

obtw count me in for them...also we should look into making poly or completley solid lower engine mounts i think that might be one of the worst parts on these cars

Update: Comp Fab is out, Alston Race cars is in. Comp Fab's timeframe became unworkable in my eyes. I have now joined up with Alston race cars in Antioch IL to get this project done soon, and done correctly. I will update this thread with any new info as it becomes available. Thanks for the patience guys!

What's the word?

We are in good hands. I have to keep things under wraps for now, but I can't tell you how excited I am.

We are in good hands. I have to keep things under wraps for now, but I can't tell you how excited I am.

MUST HAVE CONTROL ARMS!!!! I NEED TO DUST OFF THESE LOCAL CHARGERS AND RSX's!! safley of course :gruffy:

V8IMPSS: Just to update you on my control arms. After mechanically testing different walled thicknesses on the 4340 we have decided to go to a .125 wall and I think (don't quote me this) my tech said 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" o.d. on the tubing - the gussets will also be 4340 alloy plate, the connecting joint as I mentioned will be a jony joint to fit the cradle, that will thread into an internally threaded 4340 welded on tube and Energy suspension ploy rearward, ball joint will be Moog. Endlink tab will be 4340 also welded on.

V8IMPSS: Just to update you on my control arms. After mechanically testing different walled thicknesses on the 4340 we have decided to go to a .125 wall and I think (don't quote me this) my tech said 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" o.d. on the tubing - the gussets will also be 4340 alloy plate, the connecting joint as I mentioned will be a jony joint to fit the cradle, that will thread into an internally threaded 4340 welded on tube and Energy suspension ploy rearward, ball joint will be Moog. Endlink tab will be 4340 also welded on.

I think the easiest thing to do would be to have your shop finish fabbing a couple of sets for purchase. I know i would be down for a group purchase right away.

91parkave: I really do not know if they would be interested - they are only doing it on my car because when on the dyno the car crushed my stock OEM CA's and they had too.

Still no updates?

Sadly, Alston Race cars took up a lot of my time and decided they were to busy to take on the project at the moment. I understand they were in the middle of finishing up a prototype 5 gen Camaro styled turnkey funny car chassis. And now I'm in the busy season with work and don't have time to chase them for a while. These arms will happen one way or another. I've been thinking about a tubular k member that would allow use for a different style control arm, more a arm style. As well as make the k member 6t75 swap ready. That is what I really want and in a few months I will try to make it happen.