View Full Version : Puppy kicked a 71' nova


wicked383lt1
06-18-2012, 09:19 AM
So this weekend I go to a local car show with about 15 cars in it and some dude with a very clean nova and I start talking. He tells me that it has a 350 with LT's,600cfm carb, and a cam. I humbly ask how much he makes to the rear wheel and he says 475rwhp. In my mind I was like damn!! So he ask me what I'm driving and I point at my 98't/a. This dickhead tells me that I should sell that thing and get a real muscle car. That fuel injection is for kids and real men drive carbbed cars. I politely tell him in front of his wife that walked up if he wanted to get embarrassed in front of his friends. He's like let's go kid.
Race 1: his girl runs out to the street in front of the car show and does the Pinks all out thing. When she dropped her hands I took off with a bit of controlled spin and put a train on this guy. When we got back he said that he missed a gear. In a auto 4speed. Lmao!
Race2: we went from a roll at about 20mph and I spun a bit but this time I put a train and a bus on him. When we got back he told everyone I had nitrious and that's why I beat him. I raised my hood and let his buddies come checkout my intake and full exhaust set up. But the best part was when I told this guy he was a liar and that all I had was 308/331 rwhp/rwtq. I told him that he got ripped off if his builder said his car had 475rwhp.

Guitar
06-18-2012, 09:47 AM
Lol. Gotta love talkers.

Stinger22009
06-18-2012, 10:42 AM
Awesome. Alot of the guys that get/had older muscle cars seem to have this kind of mindset.

wicked383lt1
06-18-2012, 10:52 AM
What made it better is that I believe his buddy that looked at my car was his builder. This guy was pissed!

HioSSilver
06-18-2012, 11:18 AM
So many of the old school guys don't have a clue.....good kill!

Heater
06-18-2012, 12:03 PM
You should see old guys faces when I tell them I have 600 hp...at the back tires :gruffy:

Cwarta
06-18-2012, 12:04 PM
I was abou to call BS untill i got to the end of your post lol. How do you know he had an A4? With a SB nova with an A4 and 475rwhp it would be pretty damn tough on the street. Obviously it wasnt. IF those mods were all that was done he is right @310 ish most likley.

jbhotrod
06-18-2012, 12:12 PM
What did he say after you told him he got ripped off and your horsepower?

wicked383lt1
06-18-2012, 12:28 PM
What did he say after you told him he got ripped off and your horsepower?

That's when he started:cry: saying that his car needs to be tuned up and that at the end my car was a pos...I had my 5yr old with me and he really started to curse so I just walked away. No I didn't have my daughter in the car when I raced.

big hammer
06-18-2012, 12:51 PM
600 CFM carb and 475 rwhp hey...

wicked383lt1
06-18-2012, 12:53 PM
600 CFM carb and 475 rwhp hey...

That's what I thought to myself.

big hammer
06-18-2012, 12:58 PM
it takes alot of good parts to get 475 rwhp out of a 350. it takes alot more than a cam on what is probably stock heads. i've seen so many people who think they have a 450 hp 350 when in reality they are lucky to have 300 at the crank.

475 rwhp would take at least 215 cc heads and alot of compression, and alot of rpm.

Cwarta
06-18-2012, 01:04 PM
Yup. We run a Mechanical fuel injected SBC 440 and its about 1,100 hp :)

69chevelleSS
06-18-2012, 09:33 PM
475rwhp? What a joke. It would take serious parts to get a 350 to make that. A 383 would need to be built well to make it even.

adamantium
06-18-2012, 10:08 PM
Where was this at? In hialeah? lol. Id like to go out there for a laugh.

wicked383lt1
06-18-2012, 10:26 PM
It was in Miami Springs on 36st...my best kill ever!!

adamantium
06-18-2012, 10:28 PM
It was in Miami Springs on 36st...my best kill ever!!

lol thats crazy, good kill! alot of the older guys are oblivious.

odthetruth
06-19-2012, 12:32 AM
The only thing I don't like... about this whole story...

Is it has no video. LOL
Excellent kill.

Birdracing
06-19-2012, 07:40 PM
That is alot of horsepower for a 350, i have a 350 4bolt with vortec heads ported, cam, airgap rpm intake, 750 vs, 3000 fti converter with 373 gears, i be lucky if i got 320 to the rear wheels..

sweetC5
06-19-2012, 07:55 PM
That's awesome man, these freaking old farts don't respect new muscle till they get an ass woppin like that! A well built 350 with decent heads will only make 400 at the crank LOL, you definitely need some compression and solid cam to make anything near what a mild ls motor will make.

Sticks n Stones
06-19-2012, 08:14 PM
it takes alot of good parts to get 475 rwhp out of a 350. it takes alot more than a cam on what is probably stock heads. i've seen so many people who think they have a 450 hp 350 when in reality they are lucky to have 300 at the crank.

475 rwhp would take at least 215 cc heads and alot of compression, and alot of rpm.

Agreed 100%. I've built a ton of 350sbc street builds and with them it's all about the rpm and heads/cam/valvetrain to support making that rpm. 475rwhp on pump gas would SOUND nasty as hell with the monstrous solid roller cam needed to support the 7,000 to 7,500rpms it would have to spin to make it. Not to mention at a minimum of a Victor tunnel ram and ported 850 double pumper or better yet a dominator style 1050 carb. All of which would dictate a absolute minimum of 3600 stall converter just to keep from embarrassing yourself with a bog every time you hit the gas with that big carb/single plane/huge cam setup.

I've always been amazed at LSx power as I started off with old school small and big blocks before stepping up.

LT1forever
06-19-2012, 08:47 PM
Its hard to believe some peoples mindset reguarding their car. This guy falls under the " my car is still better in every way even though you beat me". I hate douchebags like that, there is always an exscuse.

KingJacobo
06-19-2012, 10:08 PM
As an old school owner, I apologize for arrogant purists everywhere. What many people don't realize is that (stockish, not a done up build) fast in the 60s and 70s is NOT the same as fast now. I've driven a stock pre-emissions 455, yes it had balls and gobs of low end torque (ever driven a big block up a steep hill? :D) but compared to modern FI cars..the seat of your pants feeling isn't as intense and the numbers speak for themselves.

Honestly, no matter how fast, newer cars just don't have the same soul as the cars of the 60s and early 70s. I'm a huge fan of newer cars and engine technology (next car will be an LS1 TA) but there is something to be said for a carb'd V8 rumble that nothing can duplicate. Not the same as "FI is for kids", which we all know is his ego talking.

That being said, good job putting this tool in his place. Some people need some humbling to keep their heads on straight.

Mike Morris
06-19-2012, 10:11 PM
Agreed 100%. I've built a ton of 350sbc street builds and with them it's all about the rpm and heads/cam/valvetrain to support making that rpm. 475rwhp on pump gas would SOUND nasty as hell with the monstrous solid roller cam needed to support the 7,000 to 7,500rpms it would have to spin to make it. Not to mention at a minimum of a Victor tunnel ram and ported 850 double pumper or better yet a dominator style 1050 carb. All of which would dictate a absolute minimum of 3600 stall converter just to keep from embarrassing yourself with a bog every time you hit the gas with that big carb/single plane/huge cam setup.

I've always been amazed at LSx power as I started off with old school small and big blocks before stepping up.


I agree 100 percent. Sick power these LS1s make with simple mods compared to SBC modded to the max.

As an old school owner, I apologize for arrogant purists everywhere. What many people don't realize is that (stockish, not a done up build) fast in the 60s and 70s is NOT the same as fast now. I've driven a stock pre-emissions 455, yes it had balls and gobs of low end torque (ever driven a big block up a steep hill? :D) but compared to modern FI cars..the seat of your pants feeling isn't as intense and the numbers speak for themselves.

Honestly, no matter how fast, newer cars just don't have the same soul as the cars of the 60s and early 70s. I'm a huge fan of newer cars and engine technology (next car will be an LS1 TA) but there is something to be said for a carb'd V8 rumble that nothing can duplicate. Not the same as "FI is for kids", which we all know is his ego talking.

That being said, good job putting this tool in his place. Some people need some humbling to keep their heads on straight.

Agree 100 percent with this post.

hwcoll95
06-19-2012, 10:59 PM
like KidRock says:="it ain't cocky if you back it up" i'm ol skool,but am PRO fuel injection,esp. LS power. my 355 supercharged "CARB'd" IROC is only 2tenths faster than my bone stock '99 LS

thunderstruck507
06-20-2012, 09:08 AM
That's why I put a ls1 in my classic muscle.

With the cam and exhaust shaking the car at lights it's hard to convince people this is the same engine that came in a Fbody/Corvette from the late 90s-00s.

I hear a lot of "should have used a big block" from the older crowd...until they see the car run. If they're still assholes about it I make sure they know I get over 20mpg to boot.

wicked383lt1
06-22-2012, 06:33 PM
[QUOTE=thunderstruck507;16437403]That's why I put a ls1 in my classic muscle.

With the cam and exhaust shaking the car at lights it's hard to convince people this is the same engine that came in a Fbody/Corvette from the late 90s-00s.

I hear a lot of "should have used a big block" from the older crowd...until they see the car run. If they're still assholes about it I make sure they know I get over 20mpg to boot.

I forgot to mention the mpg:cheers:

Footlead
06-22-2012, 07:07 PM
Im from that era of solid/roller cam Small Block chevys and built many and to get 450 HP you had to have alot of compression some decent ported heads and a big stick in it with a good intake and 750 to 850 Holley carb sitting on top of it jetted pretty fat. Remember those heads are 23 degree heads and the Ls1 stuff is a freaking 15 degree head and is miles ahead of the old SBC stuff bone stock!! Technology is impressive. Back in those days Buick made a small block head that was 15 or 18 degree that flowed great but it was expensive as hell and pure race head. The LS1 head is good,,,The LS2 is better but that LS3 head is badass for sure.:angel:

s346k
06-22-2012, 10:41 PM
i always thought any head was good.

big hammer
06-22-2012, 10:47 PM
come on now guys. big blocks are fuckin fun on the street!

wicked383lt1
06-23-2012, 12:03 AM
i always thought any head was good.

I second that! :eek2:

Felix C
06-23-2012, 04:04 PM
I noticed on a vintage F-body site where a 1979 6.6L T/A with high compression heads, mild cam, long tube headers, Edelbrock intake, Holley carb. made 290rwhp and 369rwtq. I doubt the engine could turn higher than 5500rpm.

We did not have rear wheel dynos back in the day. Car magazines would be very happy if they reached 1 hp per cubic inch on an engine dyno with performance tests. I do recall the typical street hero build was a follows: 350cid equipped with hooker 4into1 headers w/o cats & true duals, hi-energy 268H camshaft or something hydraulic from Crane, edelbrock copy of the LT1 intake manifold, Holley 700cfm. Folks with more money would add 2.02 valve heads from early year cars.

I understand that is about 240-250rwhp from an experienced builder who works in the Gen 1 SBC.

Footlead
06-23-2012, 06:30 PM
Thats a 400 pontiac and they didnt make their power up high anyway plus if those were factory heads worked on they didnt flow much either. Small block 350,383.or 406 would toast a 400 pontiac any day.....455 is a different story.

ls1 1990 VN
06-23-2012, 07:35 PM
'We did not have rear wheel dynos back in the day'

Car magazines would be very happy if they reached 1 hp per cubic inch on an engine dyno with performance tests. I do recall the typical street hero build was a follows: 350cid equipped with hooker 4into1 headers w/o cats & true duals, hi-energy 268H camshaft or something hydraulic from Crane, edelbrock copy of the LT1 intake manifold, Holley 700cfm. Folks with more money would add 2.02 valve heads from early year cars.

I understand that is about 240-250rwhp from an experienced builder who works in the Gen 1 SBC.

You must be 'REAL' old, as we had rear wheel dynos here in NZ over 40yrs ago. :confused:

Felix C
06-23-2012, 07:49 PM
I read PHR, Hot Rod and Car Craft religiously in the early-mid 1980s and do not recall wheel dynos in their articles.

No one at the track ever spoke in terms of rear wheel power and we had no means to measure locally. No shop in my area ever had one.

big hammer
06-24-2012, 08:05 AM
I noticed on a vintage F-body site where a 1979 6.6L T/A with high compression heads, mild cam, long tube headers, Edelbrock intake, Holley carb. made 290rwhp and 369rwtq. I doubt the engine could turn higher than 5500rpm.


I understand that is about 240-250rwhp from an experienced builder who works in the Gen 1 SBC.


pontiacs are a different animal. i just finished assembling a mild 455 ho for my 75 t\a. approx 425 hp and 550 ft\lbs torque! lol


alot of advancement has come in the way of pontiac power because of dave bisschop in BC. he has been producing some unreal power out of them. probably comparable to a BBC.

there are also two different style heads for pontiac. D-port and round port. the round ports are the high flowing ones, but 99% of pontiacs are D port. they are the torqu monsters.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q230/b-man64/Pontiac%20Ram%20Air%20IV/DSC03465.jpg

Felix C
06-24-2012, 10:22 AM
I know. I owned a 1970 RAIII T/A and 1979 T/A 6.6 and worked on my Pontiacs. We did not have much back then in terms of options.Chevy almost always in the lead.
I noticed Edelbrock's aluminum heads mirror the round port RAIV/455HO.

big hammer
06-25-2012, 07:20 AM
I know. I owned a 1970 RAIII T/A and 1979 T/A 6.6 and worked on my Pontiacs. We did not have much back then in terms of options.Chevy almost always in the lead.
I noticed Edelbrock's aluminum heads mirror the round port RAIV/455HO.

yeah they are. edelbrock also makes a D port head now

thunderstruck507
06-25-2012, 09:59 AM
I do recall the typical street hero build was a follows: 350cid equipped with hooker 4into1 headers w/o cats & true duals, hi-energy 268H camshaft or something hydraulic from Crane, edelbrock copy of the LT1 intake manifold, Holley 700cfm. Folks with more money would add 2.02 valve heads from early year cars.

I understand that is about 240-250rwhp from an experienced builder who works in the Gen 1 SBC.

You just basically described the 350 I had in my car that my dad built for me.

350 .030 over with flat top pistons with 4 reliefs (ran on 87 fine)
882 heads (he ported them pretty well)
comp 268H cam (.454/.454 lift)
Edelbrock performer intake
Holley 670 Street Avenger
HEI
cheap headers

With 2.25" duals, 700r4 with corvette converter, 3.42 rear gear in my car at a 3900# race weight that combo did manage 9.15-9.2@77-78mph in the 1/8th in 2500-3000ft DA.

I thought it was fast. It did do pretty good on gas though with high teens.

1dirtybird
06-25-2012, 10:44 AM
good kill... I'd take yer money ;)

But just because its an iron vortec headed sbc don't mean its slow... my car dips into the 10's on a 100 shot. Its nothing more then a great basic combo with a lot of time in making it work. I get people telling me that their old muscle car went 10's. All I do is politely tell them "no it didn't, maybe in the 1/8th"

Sticks n Stones
06-25-2012, 02:33 PM
I read PHR, Hot Rod and Car Craft religiously in the early-mid 1980s and do not recall wheel dynos in their articles.

No one at the track ever spoke in terms of rear wheel power and we had no means to measure locally. No shop in my area ever had one.

Agreed. It's not that I didn't know about and/or hear about wheel dyno's, it's just that very few V8 muscle car guys ran there cars on them, and even back then we all knew there numbers were BS and varied wildly dyno to dyno. Basically, only the big turbo hondas and supras made a habit of hitting the rear wheel dyno's.

Us V8 carbed guys (and the magazines that were devoted to us) didn't give much of a rats ass about a rearwheel dyno. Why? Because when dealing with old school muscle any kind of decent POWER build involves a ENGINE build, not like today where a cam only, or more radical cam and heads is considered a stout street build. Heck, I used to swap out cams every weekend and traded them like some guys traded baseball cards in an effort to find the best power with my various setups.

When you build a old school carbed build, you really need to have a engine dyno done to set the carburetor jetting/accelerator pump/ 1" carb spacer needed or not/ vacuum advance curve and mechanical advance curves set/ oil leaks fixed/ valves adjusted/ to verify oil pressure to the top end is 'just right'/ and a host of other little things done that will literally save you weeks of chasing issues and trial and error.

Most of that can be done on a engine dyno much faster, cheaper, and easier then on a chassis dyno. And all of that time and effort dialing in the engine was just for the baseline tune! Hit the 1/4 mile up and there goes another chunk of your life spent doing dozens of runs trying to dial in the engine AND the no-two-are-ever-alike chassis those old engines came in. Best bring a spare set of plugs, a set of hotter and colder plugs, spare set of wires, too, cuz you probably will burn a set up on your headers during all the wrenching.

God help you if you don't have a quick change spring set in your vacuum secondaries and the magical quick-jet-change float bowls... ask me how many times I've chased after those little cork vacuum secondary washers and how many cars on fire I've seen after dumped fuel hits a red hot header... including mine on at least a couple occasions...

wicked383lt1
06-26-2012, 08:33 AM
good kill... I'd take yer money ;)

But just because its an iron vortec headed sbc don't mean its slow... my car dips into the 10's on a 100 shot. Its nothing more then a great basic combo with a lot of time in making it work. I get people telling me that their old muscle car went 10's. All I do is politely tell them "no it didn't, maybe in the 1/8th"

I don't understand how your car is so fast with the mods listed..."
70 Nova (Barney) 355, carbed, juice, th400, 3.8k verter, 12 bolt..11.89@113.66 1.70 60ft All motor 320rwhp 306rwtq" I have the wrong engine my car if all I need is a carb and stall to go 11.89@113.66 in the 1/4 and 10's on the spray! From what I've read over the years is that the LS powered engines out perform the older carbbed 350's all day. What I get from your sig is that you have a 3.8k verter on spray that is stock running 11's! I'm sorry to say but I call BS or teach me something new that I've never seen before.

1dirtybird
06-26-2012, 10:46 AM
I don't understand how your car is so fast with the mods listed..."
70 Nova (Barney) 355, carbed, juice, th400, 3.8k verter, 12 bolt..11.89@113.66 1.70 60ft All motor 320rwhp 306rwtq" I have the wrong engine my car if all I need is a carb and stall to go 11.89@113.66 in the 1/4 and 10's on the spray! From what I've read over the years is that the LS powered engines out perform the older carbbed 350's all day. What I get from your sig is that you have a 3.8k verter on spray that is stock running 11's! I'm sorry to say but I call BS or teach me something new that I've never seen before.

I can make your ls1 car do magical things too ;) worry about weight, suspension, converter, tire and gearing 1st then hp.

Also from what i have seen it takes an LSX 30~50 more hp to do the same thing as a sbc. I have built alot of both.

And i have many time slips and vid's too. That was the best DA (2000ft) we had had too. Im still working the bugs out should go 11.5-11.6 all motor. My dyno is a bit off because i had crimp bent 2 1/2 inch flow masters. the car now has 3 inch magnaflows so prolly more like 335~345 to the tire. Car drives to and from the track and get 15mpg on the high way too lol. Again it takes time and effort to get a car to do these things.

wicked383lt1
06-26-2012, 02:14 PM
I can make your ls1 car do magical things too ;) worry about weight, suspension, converter, tire and gearing 1st then hp.

Also from what i have seen it takes an LSX 30~50 more hp to do the same thing as a sbc. I have built alot of both.

And i have many time slips and vid's too. That was the best DA (2000ft) we had had too. Im still working the bugs out should go 11.5-11.6 all motor. My dyno is a bit off because i had crimp bent 2 1/2 inch flow masters. the car now has 3 inch magnaflows so prolly more like 335~345 to the tire. Car drives to and from the track and get 15mpg on the high way too lol. Again it takes time and effort to get a car to do these things.

So what your saying is if I put track suspension,slicks,and a converter,I'd run low 12's? I'm not seeing it unless you weight is south of 2900lbs. Then maybe and that's still hard to believe with so little hp. So if you had 500rwhp you'd run 9's in good weather. Can someone else chime in!

N2OBaby
06-26-2012, 02:30 PM
The LS engines are the Big Blocks of this time.

1dirtybird
06-26-2012, 02:58 PM
So what your saying is if I put track suspension,slicks,and a converter,I'd run low 12's? I'm not seeing it unless you weight is south of 2900lbs. Then maybe and that's still hard to believe with so little hp. So if you had 500rwhp you'd run 9's in good weather. Can someone else chime in!

Bottom 10's for sure. Car weighs 3300 with me in it. My buddys 02 ta went 11.90 with alot of converter, suspension, and just bolt-on's weighed 32XX with driver. I built my buddys 00 frc it made 369/375 and went 12.39 w/1.85 60ft and has trapped a best of 114.5 on the same night. Just bolt-on's, heads, stock cam, and a fried stock clutch! Thats with stiff ass suspension. It will see 11's for sure with a new clutch and trans.

I can see you aint getting it, but if you were in az I'd take ya out for a good kicking. But till then keep reading the internet its always right :bang:

wicked383lt1
06-26-2012, 03:15 PM
Bottom 10's for sure. Car weighs 3300 with me in it. My buddys 02 ta went 11.90 with alot of converter, suspension, and just bolt-on's weighed 32XX with driver. I built my buddys 00 frc it made 369/375 and went 12.39 w/1.85 60ft and has trapped a best of 114.5 on the same night. Just bolt-on's, heads, stock cam, and a fried stock clutch! Thats with stiff ass suspension. It will see 11's for sure with a new clutch and trans.

I can see you aint getting it, but if you were in az I'd take ya out for a good kicking. But till then keep reading the internet its always right :bang:

No need to be a dickhead and I know that the Internet isn't right but I always ask alot of questions. Wish I was closer so we could race. Win or lose! How much power did your buddies t/a make run 11.90?

1dirtybird
06-26-2012, 05:53 PM
No need to be a dickhead and I know that the Internet isn't right but I always ask alot of questions. Wish I was closer so we could race. Win or lose! How much power did your buddies t/a make run 11.90?

You are right. As in my 1st reply I said "good kill" as it was. We race alot out this way and talk ALOT of shit. Sorry if i was a bit dickish.

The expressoin of a "good kicking" is lost if not herd with a British accent lol.

It made 32X ish through a 5k+ converter he made it into a stock eliminator car and it ended up going low 10's with just a cam.

Edit if you scroll down the gen 1 section there are a couple threads on my build, you will see there is more/and less to it, then i let on to.

Doug G
06-26-2012, 06:30 PM
600 CFM carb and 475 rwhp hey...

That's what I thought to myself.

600 carb and ROFLMFAO ......

wicked383lt1
06-26-2012, 08:14 PM
You are right. As in my 1st reply I said "good kill" as it was. We race alot out this way and talk ALOT of shit. Sorry if i was a bit dickish.

The expressoin of a "good kicking" is lost if not herd with a British accent lol.

It made 32X ish through a 5k+ converter he made it into a stock eliminator car and it ended up going low 10's with just a cam.

Edit if you scroll down the gen 1 section there are a couple threads on my build, you will see there is more/and less to it, then i let on to.

ok cool:usa: